just talkin'

[von Cosack Dobermann]

Sorry I haven't tuned in the last few days but I will be here more often after today, busy with some projects and yaking to much on the Chat!!! Later Von.

[Big Dogs]

Von I was wondering since you have been working with problem dogs lately if you have seen a rise in protection dogs that were trained so poorly that they were unstable even with there owners. We have worked with 2 Dobes and a GSD in the past year and a half that the trainers should be shot over. I always tell the owners the same thing it is going to take twice as long to undue what was done.

[Dobs4ever]

Big Dogs how much do you think is attributed to the dogs being too nervy??? I see a lot of that in some breeding programs and it is disturbing. I do know that there are very few and far between people I would trust to train my dogs. Unfortunately we lost our helper last year and it has really hurt as I have to drive 7 hours one way to train with someone I trust.

[von Cosack Dobermann]

D4E, you nailed it!!! The trainers today will train anything and the biggest flaw other than not knowing how to train PP is their evaluation skill. If you flank a dog they'll move forward or retreat, big deal, thats not evaluating. Raising suspision in puppy training is a lost art, I'm glad I don't have to deal with the poor characters of today.....dogs & PEOPLE!!!! VON.

[Big Dogs]

I defiantly agree with people not evaluating correctly. As I see one of the problems is there are trainers that are just rushing the dogs through with out regard to what they are producing and when I ask the owner how much time was spent with them it was virtually none or very little. These are the same people that when I talk to them about why they wanted there dog PP to begin with really couldn't give me a good reason other than thats what they wanted. My kennel is small and with the added cost of insurance it really isn't smart from a business stand point to even make it available not to mention another trainer helps with the bite work and I do it for him when we get dogs in either kennel I'm getting to old to get hit like that thank god for motrin . Most people do not understand what they are asking for or why and what it takes on there part and the dogs part to get there and not everyone is responsible enough or have the fortitude to deal with owning a dog that is trained this way. I'n answer to the nervy question I would have to say yes from what we have seen in the past couple of years and there is no specific breed it seems to be across the board. We just evaluated a Great Dane and a Labrador both of them were around the 6-8 month range and and both reacted skittish as if they had been beaten all there lives and both were owned by nice elderly couples who were very passive type people.

[Dobs4ever]

To me part of the training is that the trainer be able to READ the dog. If what you are doing is not working you need to adapt to meet the dogs needs. Too many just cast the dog off as not capable when it is the trainer who is not capable. Or they want to just impress someone who does not understand what they are looking at and rush the dog too fast. A good trainer/helper is worth his weight in gold. And you are both so so so correct you can't rush these dogs. You have to go into it with lots of patience. So many poeple today just want to see the dog bite. I get so sick of that.

The trainer makes or breaks the dog if the dog has the appitude for working. It is darn hard work and you have to make split second decisions based on the dog. I so admire the trainers who have that special talent and ablity.

[von Cosack Dobermann]

I sadly agree, the Dobermann of today is a different breed compared to what I was raised with. In the last twenty years I haven't had three dogs that could excell at PP, the vast majority were alarm dogs at best, when I express to people to evaluate their Dobermanns it's for a reason. I want them to know the dogs ability or lack of so they realize that all Donermanns aren't BORN protectors. This is so personal to me and upsets me when people believe that the dogs needs to mature first and will become a NATURAL protector. So many are a bundle of nerves when the slightest pressure is applied, sad. VON.

[Dobs4ever]

Von - do you find a lot of the new trainers have a couple plays out of a book and if the dog does not respond then they are lost. At least that is how I feel.

[RKCM]

Ok guys, I'm following this thread. Am I understanding this right? Some people send their dogs off to learn bite work? Is this correct?

[RKCM]

Silly, question but thought I'd risk the question anyway. It is better than not understanding. When we don't learn more, we are dead. Like to stick around awhile. LOL

[von Cosack Dobermann]

D4E, don't you know everybody's a dog trainer hahaha! but yes, more relavant is the amount of Sch. trainers trying to teach PP. The PP trainers are far and few.
RKCM, yes most times the owner is removed for the dogs intro, however I've worked many times with an owner once they learn the handlers obligations completely. There needs alot of trust between handler and agitator they are a team. To much to explain whats involved but you get my drift, it's team work or folks get bit when their not supposed to haha!! Von.

[Rhiannon]

I am so very very glad to see that you have joined Von and now you guys get to talk what you are good at. Maybe between Big Dogs and you it will help a lot. I don't know much at all about the pp aspect of dobermans. But it sure is neat to listen to people talking about it. Thanks guys.

[RKCM]

We need more members on the forum. Any ideas??

I mean I love reading the posts, but we need more people. Don't ya'll think?:rolleyes:

[Dobs4ever]

I am glad to see several joining us from other forums. Glad to have everyone.

[von Cosack Dobermann]

Hello all, hope everyone is well! I'm trying to get some folks interested in joining here also, we do need some more people. I need to get around this site more and learn some of the in & outs for posting a variety of things. VON

[RKCM]

We have had a few new members and that's good. Thanks Von, I've invited a few too. I have also noticed a few people are posting that hasn't been here for awhile.

[RKCM]

We have had a few new members and that's good. Thanks Von, I've invited a few too. I have also noticed a few people are posting that hasn't been here for awhile too. The forum has been slow for awhile. It is beginning to improve with participation and hope it gets more members. Variety is a spice, they say.