Introduction!

[Nora04]

Hello everyone! My name is Nora. I do not own a Doberman, but for the last two months or more so, I have been researching, studying, and communicating with breeders and thinking of getting my first Doberman. From what I know, they are extraordinary dogs, with good looks and unique personalities and temperaments. I enjoy looking at the pics and reading about them, getting to know the breed. However, when I read forums from esp. new owners, the agression may be something of a concern. Tell me, when I bring a new Dobe into my house, what exactly will life be like? Some people say how wonderful and sweet their dogs are and others talk about nipping, growling, aggression, etc. Now, I just don't know what to expect. I have a large home, small yard, no children, and I have a husband. I want to make the right choice of a home dog. I know I would really enjoy a Doberman, but that agression?

[von Cosack Dobermann]

Welcome to the "Hub" from SW Fla. sounds like your info comes from non Dobermann owners. However all working breeds need solid OB training to insure good manners. Dobes4ever is a member here and a breeder I'm sure she can help direct you in regards to possible breeders with quality pups. There are trainers here including myself that can offer guidance in regards to training. Thanks for joining and please post your concerns and topics of interest. Von.

[Big Dogs]

Nora Von is absolutely correct OB training is essential and not knowing your experience with dogs OB training may be just as beneficial for you as it is for the dog. I would suggest talking to DObes4ever and as many breeders as possible and actually go and interact with some dobes for yourself I think you will be pleasantly surprised in what you find and if you do decide you want a Dobe I would also suggest that you use a reputable trainer or the breeder in helping you choose which dog or pup that is right for you and your life style.

[Rhiannon]

Nora doing your research is absolutely essential as you have learned. It is really important to keep on top of things once you bring a doberman into your home. Von posted something very helpful yesterday and it is something that I will be including in my puppy packets from now on. I also encourage OB training with a new dog. He suggested to another member to google a particular training method NILF. My dogs are around my three granddaughters on a daily basis. They have never been a problem but we always make sure to teach our granddaughters how to conduct themselves around our dobermans. It also helps that they live with three of their own dobermans in their house. We also take measures to not put our dogs in any situation that could cause a potential problem as well. I am a firm believer in better safe than sorry. I have placed some wonderful puppies in homes where they are with children and our families have been pleased with the dispositions and temperaments. Our puppies also are socialized from day one. They travel with us and even take turns going to my husband's dialysis center to visit the patients as soon as they have had enough shots to keep them healthy. A reputable breeder will ask you many questions about your situation as they will be looking for a forever home for one of "their" babies. There are several breeders on here that can help you also with suggestions etc. The advice you have received from Big Dogs and Von is good. And we are glad that you have found the Doberman Hub to help answer any of your questions. Most reputable breeders will have an interview process and will have a written health guarantee and contract that they will require you to go through and sign. They will be there for the lifetime of your doberman. Dobs4ever, RKCM and Mac are also breeders that have contracts and an application process. So we are here to help you in your quest for a Doberman.

[Dobs4ever]

Nora - Welcome to the HUB from Missouri - Where we are enjoying the SUNSHINE!!! Ice is all melted as of today and we are READY for spring. I agree with Von you have been talking to people who have not owned a Doberman. Yes they can be pushy - always wanting to be close.

Many time I think people mistakenly call exhuberance for aggression. It is rare that a Doberman with some training is aggressive. Yes during the 3, 4 and 5th month til those permanent teeth come in they can be like little sharks. But they are not aggressive. They are babies and looking for direction from you. Since they have a strong desire to please they quickly adjust to do the things that make you happy.

If you need help or have questions you are more than welcoome to give me a call. My # in on my web site. I am glad to see you are doing your homework and taking your time.
A Doberman is worth it.

[Nora04]

I appreciate all your positive and gracious comments. This week I am going into Georgia, (I live in Tennessee) to visit Pamelot Dobermans. Pam DeHetre, the breeder I think, is the person I have been in contact with. Actually, I don't know much at all about Dobes, only I have the idea that at this point in my life I would like a dog around. I am a person with high energy, I like to do farm work and be outdoors, and a dog strong that acts like I do would be great! (lol???) I will keep studying and find out all I can before I settle.

[Rhiannon]

I appreciate all your positive and gracious comments. This week I am going into Georgia, (I live in Tennessee) to visit Pamelot Dobermans. Pam DeHetre, the breeder I think, is the person I have been in contact with. Actually, I don't know much at all about Dobes, only I have the idea that at this point in my life I would like a dog around. I am a person with high energy, I like to do farm work and be outdoors, and a dog strong that acts like I do would be great! (lol???) I will keep studying and find out all I can before I settle.

I think she is a very good breeder and I think that Dobs4ever knows her and has a Pamelot dog. :)

[Dobs4ever]

Pam is Past President of the DPCA - don't think you can go much higher up than that. Pam has a northern sense of humor so don't take anything person. She is all for the breed, was the instigator and runs the CHIC program, conducts the doberman blood draw each year at the Nationals, is intelligent about breeding programs and understands breeding. Yes she is the breeder of my Shorckie Poo boy. When I lost Viper who was a Volt son I knew someday I would want to go back to that line for a dog.

Pam's foundation is a result of crossing Briarwood with Cambria and IMO is a very nice line. It is also my foundation crossed back on a strong English show line to hopefully strengthen saturated bloodlines and bring in a strong outcross. I have been happy with the results so far.

[Rhiannon]

What more could a person hope for in a breeder. That is a good thumbs up for Pam. From Shorckie Poop boy. LOL.

[Dobs4ever]

OK Rhiannon OH MY GOSH - Thought you had insulted my baby - just went back and read my post I really need to read themn better before sending. I meant POO not POOP!!! OMG ROFLOL

[Nora04]

I have done much research and I feel comfortable visiting Pamelot. Hey, maybe she will have the right Dobe for me! I actually live in two places, and I spend my time between each home, more in the town home. One place is in a town with a house and yard with lots of safe places where people walk dogs and just walk. Also, I have a home on a few acres where my son has a few head of cattle. I wonder how a Doberman will act around cows and a braham bull? Can they be socialized toward them and trained not to chase the cows? The cows won't train so well, so it will have to be the dog.

[Dobs4ever]

OMG Nora you have me ROFLOL - you are so correct cows are about the dumbest things I have ever been around. Yes it will definitley have to be the dog. Tell Pam you want a dog with low prey drive.

[Nora04]

Do they do that puppy test to determine if the puppy is this way, or that way? Like low prey drive, etc. What else do I need to request on my first dog?

[Dobs4ever]

Nora - I recommend you sit down and make a list so you remember everything you want to ask. ex
1. I need a puppy that would be good around other animals. Don't think Pam does the puppy evaluations per se - Tammy does most of the interactions with the dogs and socializes them etc. But if you tell Pam what you are looking for she will watch for those things.
2. If it is your first time dobe I recommend a female.

Just think of any and every question that comes to mind and write it down so Pam can answer it for you. That makes it so much easier - then you don't get off the phone and say oh gosh I forgot to ask??????

[Rhiannon]

I have done much research and I feel comfortable visiting Pamelot. Hey, maybe she will have the right Dobe for me! I actually live in two places, and I spend my time between each home, more in the town home. One place is in a town with a house and yard with lots of safe places where people walk dogs and just walk. Also, I have a home on a few acres where my son has a few head of cattle. I wonder how a Doberman will act around cows and a braham bull? Can they be socialized toward them and trained not to chase the cows? The cows won't train so well, so it will have to be the dog.

Oh this sounds like my house. But we have six horses. And you have to imagine just what goes through a dog's mind the first time they come face to face with one of them. They must think that the Dog God really made a mistake when he made dogs as huge as that....and they snort and kick and buck and make all kinds of strange sounds out both ends. :D

One of my new show girls who just came here at the end of October just met my horses for the first time this weekend. Talk about the most comical situation I have seen in a long time. Her hair came up and she started running and she was so scared that she sprung a leak ( if you get my meaning) Screaming like a monster was in the front yard. :rolleyes: Anyway I looked at her and said Kytara it's okay they won't hurt you just think of them as really big dogs. So in no time she was one of the bravest dobermans known to all mankind. She was not afraid of any of those beasts and she sat down and looked at them like so what do you do with them. I can't wait till she sees one of us riding. She'll think she is going to get a saddle next I'll bet. :eek:

Anyway the horses got her trained very quickly. She does bark at them but we tell her to leave it and she goes off to do her thing. I am sure in a few more days she will not even bother with them. I do know that we would not ever allow her to chase them for fear of her getting kicked or her thinking that they are really something she wanted to try to tackle and win. All in all it is very easy to set boundries with them most of the time. If we have a dog that is going to chase and go after legs in the pasture then they will not be brought out around the horses at all. Now all I can say is good luck with the "Horns" we don't have that to worry about with our herd. :D

[RKCM]

Nora, you can train so that they don't chase the horses or cows.

If you obedience train the dog to stay with you, come, stay etc. They will follow your lead. Our dogs go off lead on our propertys with us and we don't have a problem. But they don't go off lead near cows or horses until I know they will obey. A large animal like that brings a big kick and could kill a dog in a heartbeat. I've heard donkeys are the worse. A lot of people put donkeys in with livestock to keep the coyotes etc. away. They will kick! I wouldn't trust the dogs alone out there for a minute but with me, they do fine.

I also introduce them by taking them on lead for a few days. Most of our dogs just stand their on alert for awhile and check out the situation. I just tell them it is ok and move them on, but so they can see the horses. After awhile they ignore them. I know some dogs have more prey drive than others. I just know you can train a dog to leave it. We have a friend that has a white tail deer farm and their dog leaves the deer alone. They had to do alot of work with him for awhile but he learned. I think maybe supervision will be required or you take risks of your dog being hurt.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/millerdobes/Other/cow.jpg

And Spot doesn't take corrections.

[Dobs4ever]

OK WAY back in the beginning we bred and showed American Paints and Quarter horses. That is about the time I got my first Doberman. He would go out to pasture and chase the hores but more as a game. The mares would just lower their heads and chase him back. He loved that game But if people were coming to see foals or ride I had a cable by the gate and just latched him on it and he would lay there and quietly watch everyone - otherwise he was a complete nusiance.

[Rhiannon]

We love to ride the trails and take a dog with us when we do. But it is a while before we do so with any of the dogs. Like you guys said we wait to make sure that they are okay. RKCM is right some dogs have higher prey drive than others. That is the dog that will be more of a challenge to train them to leave it. And is the name of the that big ole cow up there Spot? Love the picture. I bet that he would not take corrections. I don't think I would even want to try to correct anything with horns like that. :eek:

With something that big you would have to worry about the dog getting gored by the horns as well as being kicked. :(

[arwclubhouse]

OK WAY back in the beginning we bred and showed American Paints and Quarter horses. That is about the time I got my first Doberman. He would go out to pasture and chase the hores but more as a game. The mares would just lower their heads and chase him back. He loved that game But if people were coming to see foals or ride I had a cable by the gate and just latched him on it and he would lay there and quietly watch everyone - otherwise he was a complete nusiance.

I used to go out in the pasture when I was a young fella and chase em too! and those dern mares chased me back every time! Bold mine, thats one of the funniest typos!!! :eek:

[Dobs4ever]

You know you would think I would learn to reread at least 4 times. I did reread it but just skipped right over that. I can just see you running and chasing the mares and had your first experience with what PMS can do for us girls. Thanks for cathing my spelling.

[arwclubhouse]

You know you would think I would learn to reread at least 4 times. I did reread it but just skipped right over that. I can just see you running and chasing the mares and had your first experience with what PMS can do for us girls. Thanks for cathing my spelling.


My wife had to read it,(out loud too), three times before she went OMG and laughed when she actually got it. I guess it must be a guy thing :D

[RKCM]

We love to ride the trails and take a dog with us when we do. But it is a while before we do so with any of the dogs. Like you guys said we wait to make sure that they are okay. RKCM is right some dogs have higher prey drive than others. That is the dog that will be more of a challenge to train them to leave it. And is the name of the that big ole cow up there Spot? Love the picture. I bet that he would not take corrections. I don't think I would even want to try to correct anything with horns like that. :eek:

With something that big you would have to worry about the dog getting gored by the horns as well as being kicked. :(

The bull's name is spot. Spot is retired and really is old. He was bottle fed by his owner and is very tame actually. I agree though, he doesn't exercise with my dobies. He is next door behind a strong fence.:eek:

[brennika]

Hi Nora, welcome to the hub! I bought my female dobe just over a month ago and don't regret it one bit! Here are some things I've done with her to make her a good member of society instead of an aggressive one!

NILF is awesome, I would definelty recommend that type of training. My dog Nika is not allowed to do anything w/o working for it. It's rewarding for her, helps her build confidence, and teaches her that I'm in charge, not her.

I also like exercise, obedience, love. I find that ridding her of her puppy energy before training helps keep her focus on me. We're teaching her sit, stay, come, down, up, look, touch and wait (obviously not all at once, but just basic commands). Of course lots of snuggles and belly rubs for love.

I also think socializing is HUGE. Whenever given the chance Nika is exposed to dogs of all sizes, from a 2 1/2 chihuahua (was that thing really a dog?) to a 36" great dane. I'm also socializing her with my immediate family and children so she knows how to act around them, as I obviously don't want her to jump up onto my 2 year old nephew.

I'm also getting her used to be handled so when she's hurt or needs to be examined by a vet she won't fight us on it. I'll open her mouth and look at her teeth (she's losing at least 2 a day right now!), pick up her paws and separate/look between her pads, trim her nails, look into her ears, basically doing whatever might be uncomfortable to any animal to get her used to it. I've been doing this since I got her at 9 weeks and she's extremely good at being handled. Our vet actually thanked us, as she had no problems examining her.

The only other thing I do to "quash" any aggression issues people speak of is handle her food while she's eating (putting my hand in her dish or taking her food away from her), and taking toys away from her. She has never growled, nipped, bit or become angry with that. Because she behaves so well she gets her food and toys back (along with lots of praise) immediately after sitting down for them.

I hope this helps. I am a new dobe owner as well and haven't had any of the aggression issues people speak of, however I think I may have lucked out by getting a submissive dog. She knew from day one that I was in charge, not her. Good luck. Look forward to hearing from you.

[RKCM]

Brenn, I don't think it was luck that your dobie isn't agressive. I think you brought up something I think is a myth. In my opinion, most are a very devoted and are trusted dog that wants to please you. I think alot of times, we hear about problems that are caused by prior experiences or not training the dog. In other words, it is the owners fault and the breed is blamed or considered an aggressive breed. My family, including grandkids, have had dobermans for many years and I have never been bite or growled at ever. Our dogs protect us but they are not aggressive to our family or those that we accept in our home etc. I do think training can make a difference and I do think there maybe acceptions, but few.

In Nora's case, she has asked for suggestions and I feel sure will correct this behavior. I'm not sure if it is aggression or just dominance and maybe just something in the temperament of her dog. I am not putting her down and think it is good when people ask questions. We all learn everyday and if we know it all, we may miss something important. It's just life.

I just wanted to say that I don't believe that dobermans as a breed are aggressive. There is acceptions. They can be trained that way or to protect us or to do many many jobs that make them happy as they serve and love us. Their intelligence and service to our country is beyond reproach and I just want to make that known. They're a wonderful stable breed and deserve respect. And they would give their life to protect you. Dang I love these dogs!!!:):)

I know some of you may not agree and there are acceptions but to me, Dobermans are not an aggressive breed. They are protective and trainability unsurpassed in any breed.

[Dobs4ever]

Good post RKCM. It is a mistake to equate misbehaving because a dog has not been taught manners with aggression. This is part of what gives our breed such a bad reputation. I guarantee most folks have never ever met a truly aggressive dog.

If you ever truly saw an aggressive dog you would never mistake it again for misbehaving. Whether you train a dog or not is not what makes a dog aggressive. The lack of socialization can make a dog fearful and territorial just as the lack of training can make a dog that is out of control and all over the place jumping etc but again it is a far cry from aggression.

When a Doberman or any dog challenges his owner he is not being aggressive - usually he is doing what dogs do which is trying to establish his place in the pack. If you are not clear in your directions then you can have a situation where the dog decides he needs to step up and be in control. We might see this as aggression but it is not - the dog is just communicating that you are not in control and he knows it, so to keep pack order he takes over. Dobermans are a dominant breed not an aggressive breed.

[Dobs4ever]

I do need to add this. A submissive dog does not necessarily make a non aggessive dog. My dogs are pretty dominant but our challenges have been few and handled immediately and then it is over. To me submissive is an incorrect temperament in a Doberman. It can cause a dog to pee everytime you get near it or correct it, it can cause fear biting etc. Dogs have natural instincts, drives and certain characteristic traits all of which go into making up the total Doberman temperament.

[magtie]

howdy and welcome!

[SnuzerDog]

Hey Nora, welcome to the group!

Sounds like you already have all the best advice from most everyone, all I will add is, use it! I believe in Owner training first, then Obedience training second, and I think you have that horse in front of the cart already. :)

[wmdobe]

Welcome to the Hub, Nora.

I live in Mississippi so we are neighbors. Good luck in your search for a puppy. There are some great breeders out there.

Wanda McCainn
Dobewan.com

[fatwilly]

Lol !!

[DLS]

Hello and Welcome to Doberman Hub!!!!

Actually Pam's foundation was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before Cambria even started breeding!!!! She has been involved in the breed for many. mnay. many years!!!!!
You have found a GREAT breeder!!!!!

[magtie]

howdy :)