Things are worse now!

[inkondesk]

I haven't been around lately, because I've been busy putting plans into action with Kayenne's training. I've been using the long-line a lot more now. It was working so well to start with. She learned not to chase other dogs. When she's on a lead...If she's on an average lead, as opposed to her light-weight rope-long line, she goes bezerk. She also still growls and barks, only when she's on the long line, she won't listen at all. If I go toward her, she goes further away. By the time I've reeled her in, she's been quiet for too long for a scolding "Quiet, you bad girl!" to actually make any sense or work. :confused:

She's also started completely ignoring everything I say to her, especially when I'm walking with a friend, or family member. She's started chasing and stalking bicycles, and chased/nipped at/barked at a friend of mine when he was riding after we met in the street. It's getting beyond unmanageable, and I don't know what I can do.

I've been using treats, toys, hot dogs, ham, cheese, loud noises, I tried a rattle bottle, I also borrowed a friends remote-controlled spray collar (plain water) and tried it on her when she started barking/growling/running away, but it didn't do anything other than give her a wet face. I hate walking her, because I always get pulled down the road. It's a constant fight to stop her pulling. She KNOWS what Heel means, she's just choosing not to. The longer I spend on her training, the worse she gets!

I'm going to two different obedience classes, and every week I get told that I need to do more with her! I get the feeling they don't believe me when I say I'm working with her for hours daily, and I don't blame them! She barks at the dogs, lunges across the halls, ignores commands I give her, pays no attention what so ever...I've booked an appointment to have her spayed on the 24th, and she's not even 8 months old yet. It could cause so many health problems, but I can't keep living with a dog like this! I love her to bits, but she makes every day so hard, and by the end of the day, I just want to throw her outside and go to bed. Instead, I put her in her nice, warm, dark crate, go upstairs, come down an hour alter to stop her barking, go back up, come back down, tell her to stop barking, send her out, put her away, and get up at 5AM again to stop her barking and take her for a walk until 7, so that I miss all the people and other dogs, so that she gets enough exercise.

I thought we were working our way steadily through her "teenage phase", but apparently she's only just started that phase. She's more trouble than my last dog, and I don't know what to do.

I walk her from 5AM to 7AM. We play fetch until she 'dies' and then I come home, she sleeps until 12PM, we go for a really quick walk around the block, have a game of fetch/tug in the back garden, I give her a knuckle bone or some sort of hard-to-eat chew, then we play some games again at 4PM, then I take her for another walk again from 10PM to 11:30PM. On each walk, we do basic training, distance training, practice "Leave it!", leash manners, and then on the way back from our morning walk, we usually see one or two dogs, and then I'm back to struggling with her near main roads while she tries to get at someone else's dog.

I found a certified behaviourist/trainer VIA my vet, and contacted her last week. She's offered to come down and assess Kayenne on Tuesday, but I've already done this! I was told she's got a stable temperament, and just wants to play at the moment. If that's playing, I don't want to see nasty! Kay's horrible, and I really regret getting her. She's a terrible dog, and I don't know what to do. She's lovely indoors, but as soon as we're outside, she goes hay-wire. I hate it. I wish I hadn't got her.

I suppose this is a sort of rant, but I want some advice, as well. What do you guys think of the whole thing? Just a phase? Did you ever have this with one of your Dobes? Anything you can suggest? :confused: :(

[Panama]

No training should be done when you're upset, aggrevated, disgusted....etc otherwise nothing is accomplished. While out with her and you get frustrated, it's time to turn around and go back towards the house. Back to square 1. Short walk with some basic obedience along the way, if she behaves herself, the next walk is longer, always incorporating obedience.

Some behaviors are harder to correct then others, as they need the "trigger" in order to correct it. Do you do any training WITH distractions? Distractions meaning those that trigger the undesired behavior?

[inkondesk]

I've been trying to use a distraction dog, and my friend who owns a Staffordshire Bull Terrier has been helping me, but Kayenne recognises both my friend and her dog, and won't behave how she does around strange dogs. I only have a few 'doggy' friends, and Kay knows them all, and doesn't react to them in a way that needs to be changed. She's always calm around dogs she knows. It's strange dogs that cause the problem. And I can't exactly ask a stranger to walk up and down the street with me and my Cujo Doberman lunging at his dog!

Really, Kay has already been 'evaluated' twice. Once by my old trainer/behaviourist, and once by a behaviourist who actually works at the vets. On Tuesday, it'll be Kay's third evaluation. I'll just be told that she's going through a phase, and that a trainer may be necessary, but she's just got !one of those" personalities, like I've been told twice before. She is friendly. She's just loud, overly excited, too bouncy, looks aggressive due to her breeds' reputation here, wants to play and refuses to listen to anything I say, so long as another dog is nearby. Hence why I'm not jumping for joy at the prospect of wasting my money on a behaviourist to tell me I can't be doing all I say I am, because she'd be different if I were.

To answer your question Panama, no; I don't put Kayenne in a situation where she'll do what I don't want her to. Not because I don't want her to do it...It would be great if she'd lunge and bark at my friends' dogs...But because it would be dangerous for me, the owner of a strange dog, Kayenne, and the strange dog if I were to put 'em together. Not many people are willing to stand around and help a stranger and her aggressive-lookin' dog, anyway.

[Panama]

I am not suggesting you bring her even remotely close to a strange dog (especially with the issue she has). If the behavior isn't triggered, it can't be detered, redirected, corrected.... You have to be able to get her focus with the distraction that trigger the behavior otherwise it'll just continue, or worse yet, escalate.

[raja]

Have you considered finding a trainer that will actually take Kay in for a week or two and work with her? It may make a difference provided you find a good trainer. We benefited from this with our last dog, a german shepard. The breeder took him in when we went on vacation. During his stay the breeder provided training. The man we purchased Dodger from bred for police department K9 units. He also did training for them. Our dog was a police dog reject :) in that the breeder did not feel he would be happy doing police work so he sold him to us as a family pet...the best dog I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. The training was no nonsense training, not the feel good stuff with treats, just a healthy dose of verbal praise and a stern jerk of the collar if the dog was not listening. Boy did Dodger respond well! I was amazed at what was accomplished in as little as a week. It was well worth the money and we had 10 exceptional years that followed. Dodger started out as the dog our neighbors were afraid of (not from anthing he did but because he was a german shepard) to the dog that quickly became known as the most well behaved dog in the neighborhood. Everyone loved him and people even came by the house to express their condolenses when he passed. Now thats a dog! You may want to consider looking into doing the same. Perhaps Kay just needs a firmer handler to get things rolling.

Also, what about letting Kay sleep on the floor next to your bed? If you do not want her wandering around the house just close your bedroom door. She is probably making a fuss in the crate because she wants to be near you. Nothing wrong with this...it will help with your bonding and you will get more sleep.

Good luck!

[RKCM]

Have you considered finding a trainer that will actually take Kay in for a week or two and work with her? It may make a difference provided you find a good trainer. We benefited from this with our last dog, a german shepard. The breeder took him in when we went on vacation. During his stay the breeder provided training. The man we purchased Dodger from bred for police department K9 units. He also did training for them. Our dog was a police dog reject :) in that the breeder did not feel he would be happy doing police work so he sold him to us as a family pet...the best dog I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. The training was no nonsense training, not the feel good stuff with treats, just a healthy dose of verbal praise and a stern jerk of the collar if the dog was not listening. Boy did Dodger respond well! I was amazed at what was accomplished in as little as a week. It was well worth the money and we had 10 exceptional years that followed. Dodger started out as the dog our neighbors were afraid of (not from anthing he did but because he was a german shepard) to the dog that quickly became known as the most well behaved dog in the neighborhood. Everyone loved him and people even came by the house to express their condolenses when he passed. Now thats a dog! You may want to consider looking into doing the same. Perhaps Kay just needs a firmer handler to get things rolling.

Also, what about letting Kay sleep on the floor next to your bed? If you do not want her wandering around the house just close your bedroom door. She is probably making a fuss in the crate because she wants to be near you. Nothing wrong with this...it will help with your bonding and you will get more sleep.

Good luck!

I hear you on sleeping with the dogs and we do that, but not until they are crate trained. Dogs that go to AKC shows or obedience trials have to be crated at times. If a dog is sick, it has to go to the vet and be crated and really should be crated when traveling. All of our dogs are smart enough to know when you holler, moma comes running. You have to ignore them, while making sure they are let out enough to go potty. It isn't easy and they will surely train us if we don't train them. We feed in crates but will assure you our dogs are housedogs that live with us. Crate training is a good thing, but I do get your point. Sleeping with the dog early may not best with the issues involved, near you like Raja said would be better. We just think crate training is part of it and try to do it very early. If your dog is ever sick and has to remain at the vets, you'll be thankful you did that and your dog will be less stressed.

[Big Dogs]

Here is what I would suggest meet with the trainer your vet recommended obedience classes in groups are fine for dogs that are being trained to follow commands what you are describing is a behavioral issue and obedience classes are not the place to deal with these issues. Most professional trainers that come across a dog like yours will want to evaluate your dog with out you being present to see if it is really the dog or if it is the dog disrespecting you! I'f they find it is the dog and nothing that you are really doing most will want to take your dog for a period of time if they have a facility to to work with them at and then involve you. This is done for two reasons first the dog will respond quicker to the training with out you being around and the second reason is it allows them to get the dog where it needs to be before they train you both together and that doesn't mean you are a bad person or handler they are just going to show you how to handle the dog in away to stop they unwanted behavior before it starts and also to make you less frustrated with the dog itself. I't is the right time to seek out professional help and I think you will find it will be the best money you have ever spent.

[RKCM]

I am not suggesting you bring her even remotely close to a strange dog (especially with the issue she has). If the behavior isn't triggered, it can't be detered, redirected, corrected.... You have to be able to get her focus with the distraction that trigger the behavior otherwise it'll just continue, or worse yet, escalate.

Not for awhile and I agree with you, Panama. Finding what is triggering this is second, only to safety.

[nterry]

Considering a trainer that can evaluate your dog in your home and in the setting that the dog has problems. I would forget taking him on walks with a pack for now. He needs to be stable alone before you add a partner to walk with. Proceed slowly. It maybe that the trainer can give you ideas of why they believe the dog is not working with the group.

Obedience classes are great for socialization around other dogs and might also help. They will have procedures or suggestions on correcting the dog in a situation with unknown dogs. I don't think much of flooding where a dog is just thrown in the group. Slowly proceed and not without complete mastery.

Triggers need to be identified. Post above are good.

[inkondesk]

I'm not joking or under exaggerating when I say, there's maybe 1 trainer who will take dogs back with them and do training. I wasn't able to find ANY decent trainer last year, but was able to find a few behaviourists who I was happy enough with, as well as a few trainers who seemed decent enough, this year. None of the ones I've used will take clients' dogs back to a facility or anything. There's a used-to-be TV trainer who, I think, will bring dogs back, but I'm not sure.

I was hoping to get Kay out of the crate ASAP, but then she started barking, and she's also started chewing. So that's a "no" at the moment. Even if I "proofed" the room she'd be out in, she could still chew carpets, walls, and furniture. The crate is the safest place for her and my house.

Tomorrow the behaviourist is coming up. I'll report back then. :(

**Thanks Aesa & MountainPonies for the messages.**

[Aesa]

Inkondesk i wrote you another PM, please read it and take that offer ;)
And keep us updated how it goes.

[Panama]

Just wondering how you made out with the behaviourist? Did they have anything to offer other than "it's just a stage"?

[inkondesk]

Inkondesk i wrote you another PM, please read it and take that offer ;)
And keep us updated how it goes.


I've contacted him via the E-mail "MountainPonies" sent me. Maybe I sent it to a wrong address?

Nothing new.

The behaviourist met Kayenne in the house, and then sent her 'distraction' person to knock on the door. Kay doesn't really bark, but she growled when the door was opened. That was about it in that department. The behaviourist then had me leave the house for 25 minutes-ish, which I thought was a bit odd. Both the other people I live with were at home. Apparently, Kay paced around and whined until I came back.

I then took Kayenne for a walk around the block, and then the Behaviourist took her lead, and we went around again, and then the behaviourist went around while I stayed back. She displayed the same reaction for the distraction dog, which was a medium sized mix, or just a really weird lookin' German Shepherd. She growled and lunged, and then started panting and showing signs of distress when she was put into the "Sit" position. After meeting the dog, she was 'anxious' on the rest of the walk.

When that was done, we gave her a series of "tests". First, she was given a knuckle bone. After 20 seconds, it was taken away from her, and then after another 20 seconds, given back. 20 seconds later, I was told to pet her while she was eating it. I had to touch her chin, upper/under neck, ears, snout, shoulders, front legs and down her back. Then we gave her a toy, played a few games, and took it away from her. Basically exactly the same as the knuckle-bone test, only with her favourite toy. And then the behaviourist did it all.

Then a strange dog was brought into the house. NOT the one that Kay saw in the street. Kay was perfectly fine with it, as she is with most strange dogs that are brought inside. She wagged her tail, put her ears back and didn't push or bounce around too much. After the initial greeting, she left the dog alone, and even ate while touching the dog. She had a knuckle bone, and so did the other dog.

I was told that Kayenne gets excited on walks, and that I should remove all exciting things for her, such as toys and treats, to prevent her from becoming stressed out. Throughout the walk, she knows I have somethign she wants, and when she sees another dog, she gets stressed in case strange dog gets what Kay wants. :confused:

This behaviourist also didn't believe me when I said I was spending hours on her training. She actually said "You can't be" and then moved on to tell me that if Kayenne was being trained how I said she was (Firmly, high value rewards, adequate exercise, games to get her little mind going, "Nothing In Life is Free" sort of thing) then she'd know her boundaries.

In a nutshell, I was told she needs more training, I should remove games/reward training from her walks, part of it's due to her age, the other's due to the way her walks are done (treats/toys) and I was also told she most likely isn't getting enough exercise.

Not sure how I can "up" that part of the training, seeing as she runs in a field for 30 minutes twice a day, we cycle, we go on several walks throughout the day, she gets 'mental stimulation' with hide and seek, her puzzle game, the plastic kong, etc. I asked how I'd give her more exercise, and was told to jog or run with her.Or maybe cycle... :rolleyes:

[raja]

I know you mentioned playing ball in a previous post. Perhaps upping the ball playing and reducing the walks may help. This combines the exercise with the mental stimulation (a two for one!) I know Raj absolutely loves playing ball and it is the easiest way to make/keep him tired. You can incorporate your training into the ball playing by giving commands before you throw the ball (sit, stay, etc) It is difficult at first because a ball driven dog wants the ball so badly but you do get their focus. Our motto has always been " a tired dog is a good dog!".

[inkondesk]

Bites, I do have a fenced garden. Approximately 180ft. of free running space. And then the other side of the top gate, there's a field twice that size which she can run in. Hence why I always thought she was well exercised! We do play in the garden at least once a day, but she's more interested in the field or inside the house.

She's really not a food motivated dog. I gave hot dogs a go, as well as cheese and all that, but she's always more interested in toys. And toys are harder to carry around than treats...! Only nine more days to go and then she's an "it". Hopefully that'll do a little to dull down her intense need to lunge at passing dogs -- at least enough so that I can get her attention. Hopefully I won't have to waste another £119.99 on a behaviourist/trainer.

[Aesa]

[QUOTE=inkondesk;19799]I've contacted him via the E-mail "MountainPonies" sent me. Maybe I sent it to a wrong address?

QUOTE]

I sended you the right adress right now :D

[Pitts]

Hey Tina,
You could just post the new forums address here openly if you want. then we could all come over and check it out. Or is this an invite only thing, where the rest of us dont get to see????

[Aesa]

Pitts, i gave Indo a email adress thats all, so what you want from me. Thats privat, thats all. Everybody was always saying if you have something personal take it to the Pm's and thats what i do :D

[Aesa]

Yes, thanks Pitts it would be good information to share that information for others in that area that might be interested. Aesa? or Mountain?

Ok again even if that isn't you alls bussiness. I sended Indo a email adress from a very close friend, so she might get some tips there. I posted it on here, because i wasn't sure if she saw the Pm's she got thats all.

[RKCM]

Just wondering how you made out with the behaviourist? Did they have anything to offer other than "it's just a stage"?

I am wondering too. Sometimes it takes a few changes on our part. Just nice to have another opinion when you have a problematic behavior. Let us know how it does.

[MountainPonies]

Hey Tina,
You could just post the new forums address here openly if you want. then we could all come over and check it out. Or is this an invite only thing, where the rest of us dont get to see????

Mr. Pitts - this post was uncharacteristically rude, and very unexpected from you - and neither you or SpecialRescue are entitled to know what is done via pm - it is not anyone elses business - I can't speak for Aesa - but the content of my pm to the OP was private and personal meant to be of some help in helping to solve the problem, and contained nothing about a "new forum" - and no you are not invited to my personal conversation with the op - sorry but I am very dissapointed in this post from you

[Aesa]

Mr. Pitts - this post was uncharacteristically rude, and very unexpected from you - and neither you or SpecialRescue are entitled to know what is done via pm - it is not anyone elses business - I can't speak for Aesa - but the content of my pm to the OP was private and personal meant to be of some help in helping to solve the problem, and contained nothing about a "new forum" - and no you are not invited to my personal conversation with the op - sorry but I am very dissapointed in this post from you


AMEN Mountain :)
You were putting it in so much better words then i did :)

[RKCM]

Ink is working with a behaviorists and what is important is that she gets new ideas for training her doberman so that she is happy and the dog learns.

The remarks here have no interest to most of us.

I would think if you know a good trainer in the UK that can help Ink that it would be something to share. If it is to bring new members to a new forum that is well, not what I would do on a free forum like the HUB. We disagree sometimes on here but we have very capable trainers and experience doberman people that can give suggestions. Actually, a behavorists sounded like the best plan to me. How is that going INK?

Let's try to leave all the poop out of the hub. We've had enough disagreements and this is a prime example of how the PM's work to hurt this forum. It really isn't my business and I want no part of it, too busy with my dogs to entertain with this silly stuff.

[MountainPonies]

EVERYONE PLEASE - I swear on my first dobermans grave that my PM to the OP had nothing do do with inviting her to some new forum!!! how ridiculous, I am just shaking my head at how you all have jumped to some some idiotic incorrect conclusion!!!

- the op can verify that the PM from me had no mention of any other forum - wow - just wow - yet again - you guys are like a pack of dogs or lemmings that all decide to jump off the same cliff... purely based on speculation????

Sorry, there is no secret being kept from the rest of the members, but my communications via pm are just that private - nothing to hide, I just like my privacy and I would appreciate it if you would respect my wishes and right to think that - Shame on you if I wanted you guys to know I would have made my suggestion PUBLIC - BAD DOGS - all of you in a long down stay!

lets get back to trying to help the OP - I wil say this, I think this is more a training and acquired behavior issue than an exercise or temperament one. I hope the op can find someone to truly help her get past this speed bump, I think another trainer - with lots of dobe experience would help

[Aesa]

We have all read that the mods have been replaced on dobermanchats or some of them. We don't care about it.

Pitts, this type of thing is what has happened over and over again. DC people come on here and start trouble, PM people to join other forums and I even go a PM on it. I'm not saying it was you Pitts. I'm saying this is why some of us aren't respecting of that forum.

Aesa and Mountain Pony, if you want to invite other people to a new forum it should be public. Which the owners of this free forum may approve or not approve but that is in very poor taste to do it as PM. Oh go over there and !ask the DC people that have never bred a champion exactlly how to train a dog. Maybe because they don't breed, but train their dogs, they are the smarter ones :) GEEZE, you talk about gall!

Why don't you even put peaches on their banner so everyone can remember how horrible of a life she was given due to neglect of , well we all know this story.
You wanna enlighten me VW, because i have no idea what you been talking about. So please please, tell me that storyI am shocked now that I realized exactly how you people work on forums.OH yeah, me too, you are one great example for it. telling stories what arent true. :D :p like Your post right now. Insult, insult, and get people to go to a new one, Tricky, but you should not have made a post giving it away. I mean who cares if you recommended a trainer but sending members to another forum. That stinks. We all know them anyway.

And Ink I'm sorry to ruin your thread but I've gotten the same type of PM's and I'm here to say it's just isnt proper. If you want to argue, go to your forums and keep the hub friendly. I understand though that thiis was not the purpose. Am I wrong?


GEZZZZZZZZZZZZZ like Mountain said and i'm sure Indo will say the same, my Pm to her had nothing to do with a new forum at all, so back off. Thats again so typical you guys assumed something and have no idea what you ben talking about. And Not me or Mountain were steering the Pot here at all. Pits and some one else started it and it is not helping the OP with her problem.
Anythng else Mountain said. Did you even read what people write on here or just make up your own fairytails ? You always very good in making up stories, without knowing the real backround or take things out of contex. It was to help Indo, not to recruit people. GEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ MURPHY and again Nope it wasn't a link for another forum.

[Aesa]

EVERYONE PLEASE - I swear on my first dobermans grave that my PM to the OP had nothing do do with inviting her to some new forum!!! how ridiculous, I am just shaking my head at how you all have jumped to some some idiotic incorrect conclusion!!! No matter what we both will say, they wont believe it anyways Mountain.
- the op can verify that the PM from me had no mention of any other forum - wow - just wow - yet again - you guys are like a pack of dogs or lemmings that all decide to jump off the same cliff... purely based on speculation???? So true MountainSorry, there is no secret being kept from the rest of the members, (nope there isn't) but my communications via pm are just that private - nothing to hide, I just like my privacy and I would appreciate it if you would respect my wishes and right to think that - Shame on you if I wanted you guys to know I would have made my suggestion PUBLIC - BAD DOGS - all of you in a long down stay!

lets get back to trying to help the OP - I wil say this, I think this is more a training and acquired behavior issue than an exercise or temperament one. I hope the op can find someone to truly help her get past this speed bump, I think another trainer - with lots of dobe experience would help I so agree with you on this one

[inkondesk]

I didn't realise users could snoop in on others' PM's. Nobody mentioned anything about another forum in ANY personal message to me. Where you got this idea I've no clue. Both MountainPonies and Aesa sent me contact details of an experienced Doberman owner who may be able to help, who isn't participating on DobermanHub. NOTHING about other forums has been mentioned. It would benefit everyone if those who can jump to such high conclusions, refrain from doing so.

Rather than sending back a private "thanks" I figured it would be easier for MP, Aesa and myself if I just posted an open appreciation to the PM's they sent. Didn't mean to start up a flame.

Because of all the posts claiming Aesa and MountainPonies have sent me addresses to a forum everybody who's interested in Doberman's knows about anyway...I'll have to come back and read the entire thread on a computer that's capable of working through all that without shutting down.

[Aesa]

I didn't realise users could snoop in on others' PM's. Nobody mentioned anything about another forum in ANY personal message to me. Where you got this idea I've no clue. Both MountainPonies and Aesa sent me contact details of an experienced Doberman owner who may be able to help, who isn't participating on DobermanHub. NOTHING about other forums has been mentioned. It would benefit everyone if those who can jump to such high conclusions, refrain from doing so.

Rather than sending back a private "thanks" I figured it would be easier for MP, Aesa and myself if I just posted an open appreciation to the PM's they sent. Didn't mean to start up a flame.

Because of all the posts claiming Aesa and MountainPonies have sent me addresses to a forum everybody who's interested in Doberman's knows about anyway...I'll have to come back and read the entire thread on a computer that's capable of working through all that without shutting down.


Thanks Inkondesk and i'm sure MP thanks you too and there was nothing wrong about thanking me or MP for the PM. So don't feel guilty about it.

[Pitts]

Mr. Pitts - this post was uncharacteristically rude, and very unexpected from you - and neither you or SpecialRescue are entitled to know what is done via pm - it is not anyone elses business - I can't speak for Aesa - but the content of my pm to the OP was private and personal meant to be of some help in helping to solve the problem, and contained nothing about a "new forum" - and no you are not invited to my personal conversation with the op - sorry but I am very dissapointed in this post from you

MP,
My apologies,
I was not referring to you at all, I was simply kidding Aesa, and I guess it wasnt taken as a kidding jab at a friend. I wasnt talking about you at all, only aesa, and even that was not meant to be mean spirited. Sorry if it came across that way. you have my apologies.

[Aesa]

MP,
My apologies,
I was not referring to you at all, I was simply kidding Aesa, and I guess it wasnt taken as a kidding jab at a friend. I wasnt talking about you at all, only aesa, and even that was not meant to be mean spirited. Sorry if it came across that way. you have my apologies.

HMMMMMM where is my appologie, you see what happens if you post things like that on here Dale. People will twist the words around and starting rumors. But done is done and i said it again, maybe after Inkondesk posted, they will stop, but i doubt it.

[Aesa]

Special and RK you are right but I get sick of this sometimes. For years I read this forum, wasn't signed in but enjoyed the information. Why all of a sudden we have these rude posts. Why say something is "none of your business." because Pm's aren't non of your business, its calleed PRIVAT MESSAGE Real simple, if you don't want to share information then don't post about it.Show me where we posted about it ??? you just assumed we did, me neither MP did When you post on an open forum, people will always ask questions. That's what forums do.

And Ink's dog is what is important. Thats the only thing i do agree with you


First of all, you talk about rude, just read your last post. Seconds posting links from other foren is not proper etiquette and i wouldn't do it in the first place and third everything else is said. It wasn't a link to another forum she got. Got it now ????

[Aesa]

Whatever you say Vwoofe and by the way i try to google that story, interessting two different peaches coming up, one is a fewn and one is a red one on DT and i found a thread from you on here, again just nothing direct about the peaches story, just she said/ he said and beating around the bush. And just for you LMAO for always picking on me, HAHAHAHAHA and HA and by the way i don't wear bows, more the kind of wip girl http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/laugh3.gif (http://www.millan.net)


And now back to the topic, sorry Inkondesk

[inkondesk]

Thanks FireF and Jim.

As an end-note on this whole PM stuff, names aren't being mentioned in thought of the person him/her self. I wouldn't be happy if somebody gave my information out, such as my name, on an open forum. I don't mention the name's of ANYBODY other than myself (and my dog, of course) because everybody has a right to privacy. I'm not going to confirm or deny that the person I've been trying to contact is Von. You (anybody...) can picture whoever you please as my, ahem, "secret source".

Now that we're passed all that...

8 more days until Kay gets her spay. Heading to dog class alone tonight to speak to the trainer. I've found some contact details for another trainer in the area. I'll report back with changes. :rolleyes:

[MountainPonies]

Personally, I would be very careful of taking the advice of a person that can't be named on this forum for whatever reason. Something wrong with that, but don't care and that's the end of the discussion for me. Let's just say that Aesa loves the last word, so take your bow Aesa and let's get on with the topic at hand. LOL is laughing out loud. LOL

Vwoofe - OH really - what is your real name?? why aren't you using it here on this forum? and before you come back and ask me the same question - it was not me making the accusation above - it was you.

So I guess if you are being truthful and stand behind the bolded statement above then no one should believe you or take your advice either??? because you are not naming your name here either

Can we get back on topic and if someone wants to politely discuss my behavior and my privacy issues - send me a pm

Ink - I hope you have a good training session and will keep my fingers crossed that the new trainer, will be more helpful to you. please up date us -

I do still have a few contacts.. IN the UK and in Ireland - that I can continue to try and find you help - those names will be sent via pm as well. to perhaps calm the salacious appetite of those particpating in this thread and speculating about the untrustworthy refernce I sent you - I am very very very good friends with and train with both the Volhards - I am sure, through them I can find additional suggestions for excellent trainers in England.

For those that don't know or recognize the Volhard name - just google them.

[RKCM]

Aesa, Peaches is an old story and who can say who is responsible. Can't believe everything that's posted on the internet but whoever it was made that dog suffer and that's sad.

Why is there such a BIG debate on the PM? So what, thanks for suggesting help and if anyone else is in the UK and needs help, they can contact Mountain. Thanks for suggesting a trainer. I have a few friends over there too but not sure a toy judge will be much help. LOL

You are all making me laugh about this real name thing. Not a good idea- I can tell you from experience. LOL.

Ink, let us know how that is all going? They all come with something and it's why we train.

[inkondesk]

It's a shame you don't enjoy the forum anymore, Debi. It can get a little overwhelming, but there's so much good information here. I do have another forum I visit when I want a light-hearted conversation with no chance of an argument breaking out. And no...No, it isn't a breed specific forum. ;) But DobermanHub is my favourite Breed Specific forum so far. Maybe when the muzzles are properly fitted, it'll be a friendlier forum, therefore better one.

My trainer has agreed to spend one-on-one time training with me and Kayenne. Because she's got blah-blah-blah amount of years experience with 'everything Doberman', I feel more comfortable with her than the behaviourists I've spoken to. We'll be meeting up on Sunday's. This Sunday, we'll have a set amount of time we spend training Kayenne together, but at the moment, the decision is unmade.

I still have the contact information for a local trainer, and gave him (my first 'he' trainer!) a call, but didn't get an answer. I'll hold off on making any decisions for a few weeks. I'll see how these training sessions go with my trainer first.

**As a side-note to Debi's "nobody uses real names anymore" comment...I never have my name as my username. It irks me when I see "Emma" on the screen! :p**

[inkondesk]

I enjoy watching the dogs prance about the show ring, but don't believe that conformation best high-lights the guarding and working breeds. A Doberman should be ba-do'ing-ing onto a padded sleeve, not being told how well he stands. However...I admire the people, and the dogs, that show in conformation (Confirmation? :|) just as much as I admire Schutzhund titled dawgs. I just don't believe Doberman's meet their breed standard when they trot around a ring.

I'll keep this thread updated. I'm feeling more optimistic. I contacted my "he trainer" today, and got a reply. He's penciled me in for the month of August. Taht way if I decide I don't need the training, I can cancel. I was surprised when he offered to do an "email training service" free of charge. :eek: My obedience trainer, who I'll be working with on Sundays, said I'd see a change within 8 weeks, if at all (using her methods, which may or may not work) so hopefully he'll be able to cancel my appointment within the next 8 weeks. :)

[inkondesk]

Success! :)

Me and my trainer met up at 9AM on Sunday, and then departed at 12PM! Most of the time together was spent talking about training and what we could do with Kayenne, but we spent maybe an hour walking backwards and forwards, doing basic commands while our trainer walked passed us, recall, that sort of thing. In three weeks time, my trainer is going to bring one of her dogs along, and we'll do some practicing with that and see how it goes.

This weeks session went so well. In the future, we'll be meeting up from 12PM to 1PM. Kayenne was bored after about an hour of training this time, and we don't want to push it.

*Feeling optimistic!* :):D:D

[RKCM]

This is good news, good for you both!

[Big Dogs]

Wow I've been working on buildings for my business and have missed coming on here for a little bit but I see somethings that have developed within the past couple of months haven't changed! Try helping the poster with the problem instead of worrying about who said what or the tired old us and them thing. As for your problem ink as I said in my original post you needed a trainer and glad to hear you found one that you like! I know some of us are not cheap but I believe you are the type of person who loves there dog and doesn't mind as long as you can see results. Here are a few more suggestions do not use a prong collar on your dog I do not recommend it unless you have considerable experience using it as it can also work in just they opposite direction on some dogs only intensifying the situation. As for some who are going to dis agree with this statement it's okay by me everyone is entitled to there opinion but I have said it many times and have given the reasons many times you want the dog to work and listen for YOU not what you have in your pocket or hand but for YOU that is what makes a reliable dog. Good Luck with your trainer and hope everything comes out fine.

[inkondesk]

Thanks RKCM!

Big Dogs, I didn't try nearly as hard as I could have with my last dog. I'm determined to give this one a good chance at life! I've gotten in contact with a few trainers over the last few days, including some of the basic obedience and open class trainers in the area, explaining the situation. I've kept my first "he trainer" updated, and he's wished us both luck, and assured that his offer still stands. I've also postponed Kayenne's spay...I reeeeally don't want to have her desexed before the 18 month mark.

My current trainer sent me an e-mail filled with instructions on what to do until next Sunday. I'll be practicing them all as much as I can this week. Kayenne even stayed quiet (mostly! Just a little bark...) and didn't lunge forward while a little dog walk passed us this morning!

I know there'll be 2-steps-forward-and-3-steps-back moments, but she's improving quickly already. As my trainer said, "we'll tough it out"!

I don't even own a prong collar. :p Someone who thought a prong collar was more humane than a choke collar actually shouted abuse at me. It was hilarious, made even funnier when I turned and started walking in his direction, and he fled. I was only walking to the bank. :D

[MountainPonies]

So glad to hear a note of optimism come through in your post - paws crossed here for you both - and HEY 2 steps forward 1 back is still progress - thanks so much for posting - Keep the Faith, stay the course and I think you guys will navigate this rough patch.

I will say again - Thank you for making the committment to do what ever is necessary to get this dog going in the right direction! Well Done

[inkondesk]

I'm such, such, such a proud doggy mummy today!

Yesterday, I took Kayenne for a walk this morning. I saw a young guy, who I always see, walking his little terrier mix. I saw him yesterday, and kayenne barked once, while trying to pull toward it. it didn't really work, because I was holding the lead so she couldn't move. Thwe same happened today, only without the bark! She also left it when I told her (glanced away) and didn't focus nearly as much on it.

We then saw an elderly man with a pram and a Shih Tzu. I got Kayenne to sit, put the ball flinger down, told her to Wait, he walked passed, she saw the dog, the dog saw her...And nothing happened! Kay sat quietly and calmly, not once pulling toward it!

I rewarded her with a game of fetch in a huge field. :D I'm probably going to kick myself for saying this, but...It's so easy. :eek: I really thought getting her out of the habit would be harder.

[Aesa]

Yeaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh thats great news and it seems you are on the right way now. You can be proud :)

[Big Dogs]

I really like your attitude it really is the right one to have and you will see results, if you like the trainer you found and you are seeing results stick with them and give them time. Jumping between trainers can sometimes be detrimental as there are usually more than one way to approach a problem and mixing two different approaches to a problem can be confusing for the dog and slow down your results. Good Luck and keep us informed

[inkondesk]

The behaviourist I was talking about a few days ago came out, but said roughly the same as everybody else, so I'm meeting up every Sunday with my obedience trainer, who has blah-blah-blah years experience with Doberman's and Obedience. :) I saw her this week, and we've arranged to meet up from 12PM to 1PM every Sunday for a trainign session.

And, another proud moment for me...

Although we saw no people or dogs, we did see a cat! You know how they prance across in front of you at the most annoying of times? Well, I wasn't expecting it. kay bounced half heartedly at the lead. I told her a very lame "No" before I saw it was a cat, and she came back, walked on a loose lead, and wasn't paying much attention to it as it walked slowly across in front of us...AND we were on the move. So yay.:cool:

I'm very glad to see we're making quick progress. :D

[inkondesk]

We had our first set-back today.

We were on a walk up a quiet lane. It takes about 40 mintues to walk, and you rarely see any cars, so it was really ncie and peaceful. I saw a group of four dogs, two adults and a child on a bike. I put Kayenne into the sit position, under my trainers recommendations, and had her facing the same way as me, which was toward the dogs. She's compeltely ignoring the "Leave it" I'm giving her, so I poke her in the shoulder. That gets her attention, as opposed to giving a quick jerk of the lead. She flicked her ears back, but continued to grumble and growl, so I quickly turn and walk away, which forces her to move.

Well, she keeps up the growling, adn barks a few times. I was trying to keep calm and 'confident' but could tell it was already going to go wrong. I got out fot eh way and made her sit on the side of the road, so we were further away from where the people were.

As they passed, Kayenne kept barking, growling and lunging. So, I started walking the way the people had just come. To do that, I had to loosen the lead. I loosened it a bit too much, and she w3as able to lunge, which broke the lead, and she charged at the dogs, barking,g rowling and snapping, she wouldn't come back when I called her, and she scared the poor kid. :( After I apologised/begged for forgiveness, I put ehr on a spare lead I take with me and walked away.

I felt terrible. It must have been the fact there was more than one dog, or maybe the fact it was 22C outside and we'd been jogging. maybe she was feeling sluggish or something. I know people are likely to tell me she wouldn't know that what she did was wrong, but when the people were outof sight, i threw the lead and just walked away. I compeltely ignored her, and she was really weary around me.

I've been told not to train when I'm angry, so I didn't. I didn't know what to do, so I just left her where she was and sat down somewhere. She stayed close, but I wasn't really paying attention. Just trying to calm down really. :rolleyes: After about 10 minutes, I stood up and called her to me in a tone that I thought was calm, and she came over all wiggly and 'apologetic'. I did a few basic commands with minimum praise, and then got on with the walk as normal, but jeez.

The lead I was using was a really expensive, reinforced leather one that was purchased only a few weeks ago. I was completely shocked when it broke, and just sort of stood there for a minute. I'm thinking of complaining to the company who made it (if I can find the details!) because Kayenne wasn't even pulling that hard! I didn't have any problems holding her, but the force apparently broke the lead! Sometimes you've gotta doubt how strong you really are. :p

All joking aside, I think I'll hold off on any more walks until I've spoken face to face to my trainer. I'm sure she'd have something to say about it, and hopefully I'll remember all the details so she can 'analyse' it properly. Feeling really down right now. :(