breeders

[dtalsma]

I am new to the Doberman breed after having Collies for so many years. Can anyone tell me about some of the large breeders? ex. House of Hoytt, Kimbertal and Elite dogs by Brittany McKinnon? I have seen their adds for decades and are they bred under the AKC breed standard? Also I am in So. Cal. any direction to a breeder would be great. Thank you

[jelly8bean]

Good for you looking for a good breeder. I don't know of any, my dobermans have all been rescues. Good luck!

[garterman07]

im looking for a breeder also, does any one know about a breeder in wisconsin that is reputable?

[awesome dobermans]

kimbertal and house of hoyt have always been the standard of professionalism in the doberman pinscher world. they definitly have dobermans that meet the standard profile set up by the american kennel club. they are inspected by AKC as well and pass with flying colors. i know many people who have dogs from these kennels and they look awesome and are the real image of european dobermans. some are standard and some are larger then standard but all come from some of europes best bloodlines. watch out for these people who call these breeders greeders. they know nothing about these kennels and only want to paint them black by deformation of their business. look at the kimbertal website and research some of the dogs on their pedigrees at doberman review. com and you will find that they produce and manage some of the best bloodlines in the world. watch out for breeders with only two ot three dogs they have no way of knowing what is in their bloodlines because they have not owned generations and generations of those bloodlines. when someone has command of that knoweldge they are a way better breeder because they know what is going on in their lines. kimbertal has some awesome animals and you would be so satisfied if you purchased a dog from them. incredible animals. i dont like what hoyt produces now but some of his older lines were amazing. both of these kennels have been in business over 30 years. if they were so bad and their dogs were bad they they would not be world renounded like they are. a few friends of mine have kimbertal dogs and their life span was 13 and 14 years. neither of those dogs had any health problems and structurally they were awesome. go for it kimbertal is excellent.

[DynamicDuo]

I have personal experience with Kimbertal and only have POSITIVE things to say. Their dogs are awesome! I did a years worth of looking into breeders and rescues and decided on Kimbertal. They breed a great looking, sound Dobe. Right now my 2 year old is watching Blues Clues while laying against my 92 lber while she is chewing a bone. It doesn't get any better than that! I wanted a big Dobe, not enormous. She is not oversized, she is stealth and agile but looks like what I want MY Doberman to look like. I personally don't want the smaller American look. The folks at Kimbertal are available 24/7. The don't just print that, they actually are available! I made several calls to get info and went to visit the kennel before I got my pup. They are a nice, clean, well cared for facility. Dogs and pens are well cared for!
After getting my pup, I stayed in contact and have had all of my questions answered, and they help re-tape the ears anytime you want - for FREE - no charge$$$.
The studs have all been tested and are available to see.
I recommend doing some research, to see what you want in a Dobe. This is a great site to get input!

[Kimbertalkls]

Okay. I think choosing a breeder is a personal choice like choosing a doctor. Some people like a commercial kennel because they have staff available everyday, answer your questions, return your phone calls, have return policies, etc. Some people prefer small show breeders because they are going to show and it is always good to have that guiding hand helping you get a good start. Some people like to get an adult from a rescue because it is a known quantity and the dogs are harder to place and need homes...
Please remember, there are good and bad in all of these. I have gotten dogs from all of these and had good and bad experiences in each category. The best thing to do is check out all your options and decide what is the best for you. Don't rule out an option because of what you have heard. Check it out. I know show breeders who are extremely cordial at home but are busy at the shows and really can be annoyed playing twenty questions right then so maybe even check it out a second time if you are not sure. However, if you leave four messages and do not hear from anyone that may be a head's up.... Good luck. Write, visit, call.

[triplecminis]

Personally I have raised miniature horses for 15 years and I know the dedication it takes to put into a breeding program like that.... you can have your fly by night breeders who are here today and gone tomorrow and back up nothing!!!!!.... I am not into that... I want to know someone has put years into planning and matching the best of the best and stand behind their program...and I truly felt like Kimbertal showed me that type of dedication ....

[Dobelover66]

Google some of the mentioned breeders and you will find some interesting information that will help you make the right decision.

[tidibole]

kimbertal and house of hoyt have always been the standard of professionalism in the doberman pinscher world. they definitly have dobermans that meet the standard profile set up by the american kennel club. they are inspected by AKC as well and pass with flying colors. i know many people who have dogs from these kennels and they look awesome and are the real image of european dobermans. some are standard and some are larger then standard but all come from some of europes best bloodlines. watch out for these people who call these breeders greeders. they know nothing about these kennels and only want to paint them black by deformation of their business. look at the kimbertal website and research some of the dogs on their pedigrees at doberman review. com and you will find that they produce and manage some of the best bloodlines in the world. watch out for breeders with only two ot three dogs they have no way of knowing what is in their bloodlines because they have not owned generations and generations of those bloodlines. when someone has command of that knoweldge they are a way better breeder because they know what is going on in their lines. kimbertal has some awesome animals and you would be so satisfied if you purchased a dog from them. incredible animals. i dont like what hoyt produces now but some of his older lines were amazing. both of these kennels have been in business over 30 years. if they were so bad and their dogs were bad they they would not be world renounded like they are. a few friends of mine have kimbertal dogs and their life span was 13 and 14 years. neither of those dogs had any health problems and structurally they were awesome. go for it kimbertal is excellent.Please read the standard and understand what you are reading before you make a purchase. Many breeders are riding on laurels too many years ago and currently do not conform to the standard. much of this has to do with importation of Euro breeding, etc, a larger than AKC dog and not competitve in the AKC ring. It is necessary to evaluate WHAT you want and what your intentions are to be, this will help you also to determine a breeder that is right for yor needs and or desires!

[Dobs4ever]

The best place to start your search for a breeder with a good reputation is the DPCA breeder referral program. There you will find breeders who are working hard to preserve, protect and promote our Dobermans. One of the first things that would make me feel a breeder was reputatible is that they are a member of their breed club and support the standard, not go off and do their own thing. When you promote you breed oversized you are openly promoting something that can lead to more hip problems and I have seen some of the puppies produced from this kind of breeding at at 4 to 6 months were already having problems. Do your research and read the good, the bad and the ugly about them and then decide for yourself if you want to go there.

[Big Dogs]

First and foremost I would decide on what you would like to do with the dog! If he is going to be a family pet, if you want to show him or work him. This will help the breeder and you both make the right choice for your wants. I personally have owned dogs from Hoytt and currently own a kimbertal and both were and are fine dogs. I do not show dogs but I do have working dogs. As others have said do your research and visit the breeder if possible. I always tell people you are making a commitment for at least 10+ years do the research and don't buy on impulse. There are good breeders out there and there are bad ones information is power. See how long they have been in business and if you think the breeders prices are to high ( and some are) compared to what you are seeing in the paper just remember this, a reputable breeder has years invested in there breeding programs there facilities and loads of time to produce what they believe to be a great dog which they will stand behind if you have a problem. NO back yard breeder that's in the Sunday paper is going to do that for you.

[Dobs4ever]

Very well put Big Dogs. I would also recommend you go to a breeder who actually works or shows their own dogs as they will have a much better idea what the strong points are in their line and are much better at selecting a puppy to fit your personal needs.

[Big Dogs]

Well Bite's before we start on the road to bashing Kimbertal no that was not the dog that had Cardio. Actually the dog that had Cardio was from a local breeder who is established and shows locally who tests for cardio but as we all know that is not the tell all. There was kimbertal in his line 4 generations back on his mothers side but all of them lived to be 10+ yrs. As I said in my statement I visit every kennel I buy dogs from and Kimbertal was no different I went there 3 times and 2 of those times were un announced and did not see any rats un kept kennels and dogs that were not being taken care of. The kennels were in good shape and the dogs looked fine. I know many on the net do not like Kimbertal which I'm assuming you are one Bites but having been there in person and running a small kennel my self I didn't see anything wrong at the times I was there the dog that I did own from there died from an auto immune dis-order that my vet said happens in about 1 and 10,000 dogs and would not show any symptoms until they were stricken which happened when he was 3 until that point he was perfect in conformation temperament and train ability, For the record just because someone shows does not make them a good breeder in my eyes or a good anything what it does show me is they have a dog that they show and looks good to they eye. There are many more things I would look for than just someone who shows dogs or says they test there dogs. I do not endorse any single kennel or person what I do endorse is VISIT and re-search anyone who you are going to buy a dog from and take a professional trainer with you if you are unsure of your ability to choose a dog that meets your needs. The internet can be a great place for information and it can also be a place for BS. The fact of the matter is you can buy a dog from the most respected breeder in the world pay the best price have the best pedigree and have every test done that can be done and still have a dog die prematurely or have a dog that is un stable when they turn into an adult it happens and I have seen it personally, what it does do for you is stack they odds in your favor to a point that you are going to get what you pay for a companion that is going to have a long healthy life that you can enjoy life with. That being said the single greatest Dobe I ever owned who lived to 12yrs old and was perfect in every way size temperament health and train ability came from a little breeder who did not show dogs or advertise just went to obedience trials on occasion and didn't health test either and if they were still alive today I would go back to them again in a heartbeat and as my wife always says I'f we would have known how great a dog he was going to become we would have bought the whole litter, so was I lucky with him yes but no matter where you buy a dog from or Adopt a dog from there is a certain amount of unknown!

[RKCM]

As is well known by my posts, I am not for bashing on the internet but it is done all the time.

When and if I purchased a dog, it would not EVER be from someone that make money off the backs of their dogs. If they have too many dogs and the dogs live in kennels that's too many. If the breeder wants to make deals on puppies back on an unhealth tested puppy, that bothers me. It bothers me if they just breed and do no sports, obedience, shows, or any of that. It really bothers me when breeders don't take back their puppies if owners can no longer keep them. Ad who sells full registeration to just anyone maybe only interested in the dollar. You support what you buy and if this is something that any kennel does, I'm done with them, regardless of their dogs. I just think that there are quality dogs that are available that have a little more compassion for giving the dogs a real life protecting the family in a real forever home. Just what I support and not saying this is any one kennel. I am saying I wouldn't support this now or ever.

[RKCM]

And I agree that showing dogs in ANY sport does not make that breeder better but it does mean the dogs were shown and was successful in what someone considered exceptional. It means that the owner took the time to give the dog a job and worked with it. No one group is the same in anything in life, but much prefer to rely on someone that values the lives of the dogs and not just make a living off selling the dogs to the first Jo Blow that has the money. Frankly, show people are a diverse group but all I have known in 40 years put their dogs first and are not the kind of people that want to live off their dogs, most spend money and time on the dog because they enjoy the hobby. There are a few bad apples in all groups, but by in large it's a caring group and let's not forget that those breeders are the ones that is paying for the research on our breed and working to encourage and educate so that our breed improves. So for the most part, they are who I'd support without question. And snobs they are not, serious in improving I think is more correct.

And yes, longvity matters and it makes sense that when you have it for 3 generations, you have a better chance of long lives. There is no excuse for testing the parents because at least you know their health at that time.

[Aesa]

Can you show in Sch or get a BH without AKC papers?

I know AKC allows you to get a number in obedience of even mutts. Why if you don't agree with their practices, Pitts, don't you consider not promoting their dogs by showing. why not get one of those numbers that list unknown breeder. I would think that would make the point?

But it is your dog and choice, just a suggestion on what I would consider.


No you can't show or trial in SCH without papers

[RKCM]

I always thought it was a good thing for the AKC to allow mutts or rescue dobermans to compete in obedience. It gives people something to do with their dogs without having papers and promotes responsible ownership and training. I know there are some that don't agree with that but I think all dogs should be obedience trained. Too bad that you can't do that in Sch, as there are most likely more dogs that could be trained and enhance the sport.

[Big Dogs]

Ok I'm going to ask this question RKCM I understand your view and you are entitled to your opinion on where you would or wouldn't by a dog, but let me ask you a question on the point you made and so I'm reading this correctly there is not one reputable breeder out there that makes there living or supports there kennel off of breeding, showing or selling dogs?

[Big Dogs]

Jim2 first and foremost the AKC and I'm not bashing them but it is a fact they are a business first and foremost they have a board of Directors, buildings, staff and Corporate structure just like any business of similar size and part of that income that supports that is derived from registrations so in answer to your question NO they are not going to do that. The AKC does many great things and promotes and educates in many ways but they are a business and as a business they are not going to turn away a money source!

[RKCM]

Ok I'm going to ask this question RKCM I understand your view and you are entitled to your opinion on where you would or wouldn't by a dog, but let me ask you a question on the point you made and so I'm reading this correctly there is not one reputable breeder out there that makes there living or supports there kennel off of breeding, showing or selling dogs?

BD, I really don't know the answer to your question.

For me, I prefer that dogs not live just in kennels but near the family where they can protect and love them. I think when you show dogs in the AKC, health test, feed well, train, and give your dogs the best, it is very hard to come out even. Nothing wrong with making money - but I think that when you have a large number of dogs that live in kennels to make your living that I wouldn't buy a dog from there. Manytime these people don't compete or do anything but breed the dogs, no shows, no training and just don't do much with them but breed. i just think there are better breeders that have better dogs and take the care that I think is better. Not only do I want the dog handled from birth and expect the best of care, just unsure how you can do that with a large number of dogs. If you buy from people that house large numbers of dogs to breed for a living, you support that. I just don't support that.

I think more than this is that when people put making money first that they are quick to sell to anyone, contributing to the rescue population. People that don't take back their dogs and expect the rescues to take their dogs back or don't care where they end up. I just have a problem with some of that. Speaking in general and not of any one kennel. I don't blast and think people should make their own decision. When you adopt or buy a dog, you support that and so it is important to know and be aware of what you are supporting, for me anyway.

[Big Dogs]

Well I would have to agree with most of your statement RKCM and like puppies to be raised in the house and again as I said everyone is entitled to buy a dog where they want and I have to admit I know of two breeders my self in Pa that make a living by breeding and showing dogs and a smaller percentage of there money off of there kennel boarding and both of them are accomplished in the show ring. They are not Dobie breeders but they are breeders that show so they are out there making a living off of there Dogs. Again as you said there is nothing wrong with making money it enables them to do what they do. I also agree with not putting money ahead of all else especially when it comes to Dogs. I believe in personal responsibility so I believe the breeder should do some research on potential owners but I also believe the majority of the responsibility lies on the owners shoulders not the breeders and until we change that things will remain same. Not to minimize a dog or person but it really is supply and demand if you could minimize the number of people purchasing dogs that were really going to see the dog through it's whole life in a responsible way there wouldn't be as many people breeding because the demand wouldn't be there! But that would also be a perfect world and until we hold people responsible for there actions that isn't going to happen and in this society no one is held responsible for there actions it's everyone else s fault. Sorry about the rant!

[nterry]

Ok I'm going to ask this question RKCM I understand your view and you are entitled to your opinion on where you would or wouldn't by a dog, but let me ask you a question on the point you made and so I'm reading this correctly there is not one reputable breeder out there that makes there living or supports there kennel off of breeding, showing or selling dogs?

Since RK didn't want to answer this, I will say that there is a big bloody difference in breaking even or making a little off a litter as compared to making a living off a 100 kenneled dogs. Just not a good thing and I wouldn't buy from a breeder that had that many dogs. No way you can personally take care of that many dogs, nor train them. Housed for breeding sounds like to me. Many purchase dogs from Europe to do just this but for the most part they do not get the best.

[Big Dogs]

First I would like to say that me or someone else on here telling someone that where ever they purchased or received there dog from is wrong especially with out ever having seen or been there in person is not only judgmental its wrong! Again I will state this again I do not endorse or condemn any kennel or person unless I have seen it for my self period. I't does amaze me that there are so many people who say this can't be done and that can't be done and have never seen the place or met the people or seen the dogs at the kennel again I do not endorse them or make judgments about them but what I have said about them I can say comes from me being there in person not from what I have read or heard second or third hand. I will also say this there were no where close to 100 dobes when I was there at any point 2 litters and 3 studs when I was there once and 3 studs and 4 or 5 Dobe pups the second time. Again everyone is entitled to there opinion as to where they buy or do not buy there dogs from but I do think it is only fair if you are going to criticize someone strictly on what you hear or read maybe just maybe before you jump on the band wagon confirm what they are saying. Jim2 I can understand your feelings but you said it in the beginning of your statement you do not know them as most if not all of they others do not also so again to make an informed statement about a particular person or facility do you not have to see for yourself!

[Aesa]

First I would like to say that me or someone else on here telling someone that where ever they purchased or received there dog from is wrong especially with out ever having seen or been there in person is not only judgmental its wrong! Again I will state this again I do not endorse or condemn any kennel or person unless I have seen it for my self period. I't does amaze me that there are so many people who say this can't be done and that can't be done and have never seen the place or met the people or seen the dogs at the kennel again I do not endorse them or make judgments about them but what I have said about them I can say comes from me being there in person not from what I have read or heard second or third hand. I will also say this there were no where close to 100 dobes when I was there at any point 2 litters and 3 studs when I was there once and 3 studs and 4 or 5 Dobe pups the second time. Again everyone is entitled to there opinion as to where they buy or do not buy there dogs from but I do think it is only fair if you are going to criticize someone strictly on what you hear or read maybe just maybe before you jump on the band wagon confirm what they are saying. Jim2 I can understand your feelings but you said it in the beginning of your statement you do not know them as most if not all of they others do not also so again to make an informed statement about a particular person or facility do you not have to see for yourself!


Nice post BD

[SpecialRescue]

Big dog, the information on the kennel inspection is public information on the internet. They are a commericial kennel that keeps many more dogs that I think is humane or what this breed deserves. They have more than one breed too. I am an animal lover first and don't breed. If you need this many dogs for a breeding problem, wow, that's just a lot of dogs.

I support rescue so that is where I would give my cash to as donations. Many very nice dogs in rescue that need homes badly. Now I DO NOT approve of any breeders that will not take all dogs that the bred or that was sired by one of their dogs back, that is just what is right to me. You take care of what you assist in creating. I don't know if these people do this or don't but like the others have said, there are some serious questions of their operation. All buyers have a right to choose what they give their money to and I wouldn't do that to this operation. This doesn't mean you don't have to either. I would however take their dogs into rescue and rehome them if needed.

You might consider the breeders reputation when you plan to breed though. Some of us just won't go to certain kennels and that's their choice as much as you choice on where you will go. I'll stick to the rescues myself.

[SpecialRescue]

Didn't Pit have a rescued Dog from this kennel that was rehomed many times?

Does anyone know if they require their dogs to return or just let it go?

Lots of questions here.

[SpecialRescue]

Nice post BD

Aesa, can you please point out where anyone said that Big Dog shouldn't buy a dog from here? I haven't found that post exactly.

[RKCM]

Everyone has a right to buy a dog from who they choose. I was not blasting anyone because I don't do that on forums but speaking in general terms. I have always said that when we give money for puppies, we support that breeder. It is our choice.

Sorry BD if you thought my earlier post was dictating, wasn't meant that way but only my personal opinion which comes across a little harsh sometimes.

[nterry]

Very few of the top dogs will be sold to the US and I would advise breeding to the line. Don't know these people and da not have an opinion one way or another but I will say commericial CAN mean not so good. It's a buyers choice to choose.

[Big Dogs]

Again I do not endorse them what I do have a problem with is telling anyone who ever they are where they can or can't by a dog from or telling them they are bad because they bought a dog from somewhere I do not agree with! THAT'S WRONG no matter who you are! I also have a problem with someone making judgement's on someone or some place they have never been.......... seems a little judgmental to me! I take that back it is a whole lot of judgmental to me! Having an opinion as to where you would or wouldn't by is fine that's a matter of your own personal choice.

[Big Dogs]

I'm curious Bites on your personal opinion how many dogs is to many dogs? How many dogs in your opinion should a breeder have? How many litters should there bitches be allowed to have? and this is kind of a multi fa cited question if a breeder doesn't show or campaign there dogs in anyway does that make them a bad breeder and if a breeder has some of there dogs in runs would you consider this to be a bad thing when seeking out a breeder? Leaving the whole Kimbertal thing out of this I would just like your personal opinion on the questions above on breeders as a whole! Also for the record I never said anything about you saying something it was a general statement in response to RKCM statement which she cleared up!