Clicker training with other dogs

[jelly8bean]

I'm working on clicker training with my young blue (Indigo) and I'm having some success that I wanted to share. She is very reactive to other dogs..not in a bad way, but wants to interact and play (boing boing). I entered an intermediate obedience class and the other dogs were a boxer and a yorkie. Well Indigo saw that yorkie and I could just see her thought "a hairy squirrel!" The first class was scary for me, because I was so worried she would just pickup that little dog and toss it. But the trainer and I worked out a deal so when she sees other dogs if she then turns and looks at me - I click and treat. By class #3 I could have Indigo off leash to do her exercises with the other dogs sitting by their owners. I am so happy. Of course some of it may have been that the yorkie came over to Indigo in the second class and stood on both hind feet and snapped at her. What can you say... terriers never understand their relative size. So now I'm trying to expand to all other dogs.. on our walks I'm working to have her either sit and wait (lots of clicks and treats while the other dog goes by) or the best of all would be if she just walked by my side and while she can look she can't play.

Anyone else have clicker training stories they want to share?

[SnuzerDog]

Jelly8bean, I won't bore everyone with another long post, but have a read through my reply #19 here:

http://forums.dobermanhub.com/showthread.php?t=92&page=2

I'm really getting into the clicker thing, and enjoying it. Also, in reference to the other thread you started on books, see the reference in that post to Karen Pryor's book. Let me know what you think if you decide to follow though and try it!

[jelly8bean]

I too am getting into clicker and marker things. I have been working for weeks on trying to get a recall with a whistle when my girls are going over the edge of reason. I was upstairs in my office yesterday and the heating service man (annual system check) came to to door. Bark!Bark!Bark! you get the picture. I blew the whistle and wow.. I had two dobies up the stairs and waiting on their treats. It is finally starting to work! Today I used it when the lady with the barking sheltie went by. She has been walking her well mannered dog off leash thru the neighborhood, and while it stays right with her it just twirls in front of her and barks constantly. Of course this sets off every house that has a dog in the neighborhood. And Yes! The whistle worked! Of course the first time they came, got treat and ran back to the window.... but they did stop and come to me. Soon I feel confident I will be able to break up the chase in the backyard when it over escalates. I am sooo happy it is finally working. So I'm clickering on everything these days.. :)

[SnuzerDog]

Nice, sounds like they are really getting it! :) It's fun watching them start to make the connection- you can almost see the wheels turning in their brains as they start working it out. Hope I have as much success as you are with the recall- probably won't be able to start on that for a bit, but I am encouraged by the success we've had so far.

Steve

[jelly8bean]

I have been running thru treats like a mad person with this sort of stuff. I use this soft dog food in a tube for treats so they don't get too much junk food. It is great to see. Also have you tried Choose to Heel? I have had some exposure to it and think it is very cool. My blue baby can heel almost thru the whole house with me now.. and around the patio. If we do agility (one of my goals this year) I'm sure it will come in handy.

[SnuzerDog]

Yeah, the treats seem to disappear like magic! I usually buy 5-6 bags/containers at a time and then have a chopping party- I get anywhere from 4-8 single treats from most of them, depending on the original size of the treat of course. I then dump them all into a big bowl and toss, then pour out the mixture into individual containers to scatter around the house. I've used Crystal Light tubes, peanut butter jars (plastic), Glad containers and peanut cans so far. This seems to last me 2-3 weeks with pretty regular treating. I also bought some cheap hot dogs to cut up and use as high power treats, but haven't gotten into them yet; not sure when is the best time to use them???

I also have three clickers- one that goes on walks, one at my desk and one in the family room but so far I've really only used the one on walks with any regularity. It is handy to have a clicker and treats in all the places we hang out- never know when there will be a training moment...:D

BTW, what is 'Choose to Heel'???

[jelly8bean]

I keep misplacing clickers.. I have several but seem to always need to look for once each morning to keep in my pocket. Haven't washed any yet..but I feel sure it will happen. :(

Choose to heel is a technique where you work with your dog off leash and train heeling. the key is you have them in some confinded area, I use my fenced back yard. And you start walking in a large circle - around the patio for me. Indigo runs around a bit then she becomes interested in what am I doing. When she comes over to me I wait till she is on the left side and suddenly "treat", but keep on walking. No calls, commands or anything. You just keep walking. Everytime they are in the semi-heeling position, "treat". Once they start getting it down you make it harder by adding turns etc. When they are starting to be pretty reliable in finding the heel position you start adding the command "heel". Eventually you add more and more distractions. In my case we will move to distracting areas with a long leash and I will just keep her on the long leash till she starts coming over. The point is they learn to "choose to heel" because that is the source of all treats. Here is a more detailed explaination..

http://www.animalfarmfoundation.org/item.php?item=139

I am going to take my time with Indigo and this is a great positive way to train. I also stash treats everywhere.. but have been using baggies, I like the peanut butter jar much better and since we stuff kongs with PB.. I should generate empties soon. Great idea. (High power treats are for either teaching a new behavior, or when you add distraction. I use turkey hotdogs myself)

[SnuzerDog]

Thanks for the link and explanation! That's got to be the epitome of all the positive training methods I have read about. I think one could easily substitute a 'click' for the 'Yes!' if desired. Our obedience class trainer said it did not matter which was used; but to be sure a vocal marker was as consistent in volume, tone, etc. as possible.
OK, that makes sense about the high power treats, and I like the idea of the turkey hotdogs, too. That will be what I get next.

[SnuzerDog]

OK, so I feel like I've successfully clicker-trained Deano to a good loose-leash walk. Had begun working on left turns, right turns, about-faces, sudden stops and such and noticed occasionally he would sit when I ceased walking in figure-eights or whatever. Hmmm... seems like a read somewhere that this is considered a basic good manners behavior, so I clicked it. I have read that you should only clicker-train one behavior at a time, so decided this would be the next one. On tonight's walk I made a few stops and starts until on one he sat, immediate click & treat. Continue on repeat. After about 20 minutes of this, he was doing it even on odd stops, sudden stops; began to shape it to where he would come right to my side to sit. Wow, he really got this fast! I'm sure it will take a few more days of various-context training to cinch it down, but this is pretty exciting! :)

[jelly8bean]

Automatic sits is a great feature, and basic requirement for AKC obedience. Once they get the picture it can go very fast. Congrats. My Indigo is still working on loose leash with distractions. However I'm proud to say this weekend we walked past a house with a dog loose (one of those electric fence things) barking and running and Indigo just danced in front of me for treats. I am aiming for CGC on March 10.. cross your fingers!

[SnuzerDog]

Automatic sits is a great feature, and basic requirement for AKC obedience. Once they get the picture it can go very fast. Congrats. My Indigo is still working on loose leash with distractions. However I'm proud to say this weekend we walked past a house with a dog loose (one of those electric fence things) barking and running and Indigo just danced in front of me for treats. I am aiming for CGC on March 10.. cross your fingers!

Wow, that's pretty good- I can walk Deano past dogs in fenced yards no problem, but we're still working on how to behave when we meet other dogs being walked (or apparently loose.)
The whole electric/invisible fence thing just bothers me. I just don't trust that a thoroughly motivated dog in territorial protection mode couldn't just sail right past it. :eek: Plus, as I think someone else here pointed out, they don't stop other dogs from entering a yard... Call me old-fashioned but I prefer a 6' privacy fence any day of the week! :o

[jelly8bean]

I completely agree with you. I found a nice older lab wondering last summer that had apparently been motivated to go thru one. He wasn't a highly motivated type... fortunately his collar had an address on it and I took him home. But my biggest thing is that it doesn't stop other dogs and animals. I do have a 6' privacy fence in the back just for the babies :)

Unfortunately I found out last night that Indigo is still not good with new dogs. We went to training and she just went barky barky when a sharpai looking dog came boldly up to the glass door. I guess she is ok with this other dog because we have passed it so frequently. Dang! More work to do, more exposure etc.

[SnuzerDog]

I am going to dig into the whole inter-canine manners thing as my next research project. I am currently watching a dvd called 'The Language of Dogs', by Sarah Kalnajs, that's quite interesting. Seems to be aimed at people who work primarily or professionally with dogs, but it's certainly easy to understand, and very enlightening as to behavioral habits of dogs.

Whenever we meet another dog, I have observed that Deano goes on high sense-alert in a passive sort of way. He seems to be reading the other animal to determine his response. More often than not, he just wants to meet and see if there's potential for play- only a couple times have I heard him growl, and have yet to see him really bark at another dog face to face. I have seen other dogs react to him in everything from complete, rolling on the ground, submission to red-zone aggression, but 98% of the time it's eagerness to meet, sniff and romp. Doesn't matter the size of the dog, but he gets bothered in a hurry if that dog gets aggressive. That's one thing about being in an urban environment, he sure gets alot of exposure to other people, dogs, noise and distractions! Guess that just equals more training opportunities... :rolleyes: :D

I started slowing my walk when we come to pass another dog, and even sitting him, which so far has seemed to work best. But, I'm interested to see what other (positive) methods trainers have used to modify this behavior. :confused: I am also coming to realize that Dobes are perhaps more sensitive to, and perhaps evenly consciously/deliberately able to determine their reaction to, other dogs, animals and people than most breeds.

[jelly8bean]

When walking I will take Indigo to the side of the trail or walkway and sit her and then keep her attention on me with talking and treats. She is not aggressive at all, but does get barky. I think it has to do with being on the leash because when we are at the dog park this is not an issue, nor when she has play days at petsmart. She doesn't tense up, but goes on a high alert kind of thing and it is hard to get her attention back. Yet, on that same day we managed to walk by a nice German short hair. Some of this likely has to do with the other dogs as well. If they charge around and puff up - she barks, if they are just laying around she doesn't seem to.
Sitting is a good thing since that is what they do in the CGC.. approach with other "neutral" dog, both dogs sit and stay - you shake hands.. then on you go.