Question About Feeding Only Meat

[MLR]

I've got a question for everybody. I read somewhere a long time ago that dogs in the wild were not strictly meat eaters. This article pointed out that if they caught and ate a rabit, for instance, they ate the whole thing, not just the meat and bones. So how is it that in less than a hundred years domestic dogs have evolved into strictly carnavors?? There is, after all, a certain percentage of vegitation in any prey animal's stomache. Rabbits, as an example, eat mainly grass, berries and leaves of small plants. So their stomaches would be filled with this vegitation and fruit when a wild dog ate it.

I'm just curious as to where this idea came into being that domestic dogs should optimally be fed a diet consisting of mainly of meat.

Mary Lou

[triplecminis]

Interesting MLR.... I think it is wonderful to always question what is best for you dog... I had a sisiter who bought a great dane and she feed him just a regular dog food.... not a puppy formula.... he developed allot of problems with his hips and legs as he grow to fast and his joints and bones were not supplemented with this formula... Her vet bill was through the roof when she could have just fed a large breed puppy formula and this would have been a little better on the pups growing body.... I feed science diet large breed puppy. personally I do not like the way it smells it has a strong fishy odor but I feel like the dogs have had no problems growing wise and so I truly think it is worth it to feed a large breed formula for pups

[magtie]

i moved your post to it's own thread.

[MLR]

Thanks magtie, I'm new to the internet and computers and I wasn't sure if my question fit where I put it.

I did go to a site after I got on line (I can't remember if it was listed here or another dobe site) which reviewed most commercially prepared dog foods on the current market, including most grocery store brands and was surprised to note that what I have been feeding my doberman's, Purina One for large breed puppies and Purina One for large breed adults as they have grown older, which they have been thriving on, was rated among lowest in nutrition based on a team of analyst’s decision that the main ingrediant wasn't meat; it was more vegetables instead.

The study I referred to about dogs in the wild was one I read a number of years ago while in college. One of the main things I learned in school was that it sometimes pays to see who funds a study before taking it's findings as gospel, i.e. if the sugar industry, for instance, publishes study results which says that a diet of 75% sugar isn't harmful to humans you might want to look for an independantly paid for study to find an unbiased report.

I'm not saying that the higher rated dogs foods in the published study I recently read aren't necessairily the best for any dog, I'm just questioning the logic behind the ratings based on the history of dogs prior to domestication by humans. Since they all supposedly came from wolves and wolves eat the whole carcus of any animal they kill and most of those prey animals are vegetarians, I just wondered how modern day dogs are fairing better eating only meat or the mainly meat formulas in those higher rated comercially produced dog foods.

When the two dobermans I have now have to take any antibiotics I make sure they get suppliments of yogurt and green beans to promote good bacteria in their intestines while on that regime. I do this because when my last dog, a doberman/shepard mix, was a puppy I almost lost her because her stomach wasn't ready to digest comercial dog food or meat. The vet, who didn't give her much hope of survival, was ready to put her on an IV drip and keep her for several days because she was so dehydrated and listless. Before going that last ditch, no promises guaranteed, medical route I decided to try the advice of a breeder freind of mine who recommended liquid puppy replacement milk, yogurt and vegetables; especially green vegetables. Within one hour of giving her the first tablespoon of that replacement milk formula she began acting as if she had never been sick where the night before she had been vacillating between throwing up what little was on her stomach and laying on her back on my lap almost comatose with her head lolling over. (That vet, by the way, was amazed that she pulled through at all.) I kept her on the replacement milk, and added the vegetables, until she was six months old and then gradually began feeding her comercial dog food.

I'm, also, not saying anyone here is right or wrong for what they feed their doberman(s). I am just not personally convinced that diet high in meat is healthier for dogs in general and wondered how others felt about it.

Mary Lou

[jelly8bean]

On the rottie board I'm on there is a huge consensus that meat is the most appropriate diet for dogs. I guess because that would be what they would normally live off. One of the things I have heard about puppies is that if you feed a large breed too much protein it can cause growth that will result in adult problems (hips, elbows and even cited in some of the wobblers articles). Lots of folks add protein to their puppies diet because they feel it will help build strong bones, but apparently not always the best solution. Large breed dogs have significantly different growth patterns. I believe everyone is pretty clear that puppy vs adult is definitely different but there is much discussion about what is the best solution.

In adults the primary discussion I have seen has centered around two items in the food. One is the meat camp.. and these guys focus on raw diet. The second is the type/amount of grains. I think that corn is the grain that is least liked and that tends to cause the most issues. Then there are the whole allergy things, where some dogs are allergic to certain things (dairy, grains etc).

Beyond the obvious of weight and general health diet can affect your dogs' coat shine and texture, teethc, shedding, eye boggers, energy levels etc, etc, etc.

[MLR]

I, too, have wondered and worried about the high protien facter in the brand of dog food I use with my two dobes. My vet once told me that that was what had caused them to grow so tall (they are both a couple of inches above the AKC standard heights for males and females). And in reading about 'wobblers' on this site, I'm a little concerned that this could happen to my dobermans. Unfortunately it's a little late to go back and reraise them on another type of puppy food.

Mary Lou

[triplecminis]

this is all very interesting because we all want the best for our dobies... I wonder which dog food is rated the best???

[MLR]

I need to clarify an earlier comment I made. I believe it was the higher amount of certain mineral suppliments in the brand of commercial dog food I feed my two guys right now, not necessairily the protien content which my vet attributes to their above average height. Now that I think about it, it was either magnesium or calcium. I'll ask my vet the next time I'm in there.

With yet another Chinese dog food manufacturer written about in my local paper today cited as producing tainted pet foods which have caused the death of at least 20 domestic dogs in China and this same manufacturer being also listed as providing some of the components of dog food to a Southen US manufacturer/distributer of several brands of comercial dog foods sold here in this country, I am concerned with changing to anything other than what I have been feeding my dobermans at this time despite it's being listed at the lower end of the ratings scale. What I feed is manufactured right here in the city where I live and is a by-product of the cereal industry which means it's doesn't have the higher ratio of meat as an ingredient that the study preferred. I know people who work there at the factory who also are pet owners and they would tell me if anything in their products was imported or not because they are just as worried about this as I am.

The more I read on this subject, it just seems to be getting to the point where you darned if you do and darned if you don't with what is truly nutritious and healthy for your dogs and what is currently on the market. And I'm not completely sold on the idea of an all raw meat diet either owing to the hormone factor.

I'm no scientist; these are just my concerns and I wish someone had a definitive answer to this question.

Mary Lou

[jelly8bean]

There are lots of discussions about what to feed your dog. I am not going to get all caught up in the raw vs kibble tug of war myself. What works for one may not work for another.. like people, I expect dogs have different metabolisms etc. I personally feed Eukanuba and have been for the past decade, I know they have changed the formula but I am happy with it. The kibble I have heard most recommended is Canidae, Blue buffalo, Innova Evo and Eagle pak. I've tried my girls on some higher quality foods, but it proved to rich for them and I went back to Eukanuba. Although these other foods are more expensive, they say you feed less and get great results in coat/eyes etc.. plus smaller less frequent stool. Got me.. feed is an art form at this point

[kingetula]

Wolves do not eat stomachs in the wild (At least not large prey) sure birds, rabbits and small prey may be unavoidable at times when scarfing food down but it has been proven wolves do not eat the stomach of large animals.

Also I find it funny how many do not want their dog to eat corn, wheat and so on but will feed them carrots, Multi-V, Garlic and so on. Sure they eat it but some dogs also eat Poo and other things that they probably shouldn't.

Research what Zoo's feed their wolves or what Wolves eat in the wild and your dog will be just fine with the same. There is no need for vegetables... your thinking to much like a Human and not a Dog! Wolves eat RED MEAT mostly in the wild. Birds (in our case chicken) are in the diet if they can catch them. RED MEAT is first!

Think like a Dog!

Would you feed a Rabbit Cow meat or Chicken? NO! Why? Same goes for a dog... Look at his teeth and tell me those teeth are meant to chew up carrots like a bunny! LOL

Too many people over think! Go ask a wolf when the last time it had a Multi-V, Carrots, Lettus and everything else some of you say to add to a dogs meal. lol. I bet if he could talk he would ROFLMFAO!

[jelly8bean]

Yes.. but who says that a wolfs' diet is the best for domesticated dogs? I am not against grains and veggies for my dogs. I do like more protein, but mostly I focus on what their stomachs can handle. Our breeding programs have changed the needs to my thinking. Our sensitive stomachs and intestinal blockage issues were killed off in the wild because that is not a wild survival strategy. But it is not about just survival now. So I think there is alot of room in these discussions and no definitive studies have been done to clarify the discussion.