Big Difference

[teehayes1]

My best friend and myself got Dobie pups at the same time from different breeders, he got his from a local breeder and mines from a Canis Maximus offspring. Both 5 month old males, his dobie is extremely people shy. Without a treat, he will not come next to a stranger for hours. He urinates if forced to greet and urinates in the bedding of his crate almost everyday. His dobie whimpers a lot when left alone for a moment or when we take them for a short car ride to the doggie park. My dobie does none of this, can any of you give any advice so I can help my friend because I have no idea why his dog does these things. Could this be from the breeding, his breeder kept his dogs outside and stated that his dogs have never been indoor dogs or very socialized? Of course, I would never gotten a dobie from this type of breeder but now that he has the pup, I am attempting to help as much as I can.

[jelly8bean]

I have never heard of a Canis Maximus offspring? What is special about this(other than big per the latin name)? Breeding will not significantly affect the confidence level of a puppy, as much as environment. How old was the puppy when your friend got him? If he was under 8 weeks he was separated from the litter too soon to learn many socialization technique. Dobies are absolutely indoor dogs and very social (the Velcro dog description was based on a Dobie), strange what the breeder is saying.


For a shy dog I would say he should start to work on obedience and socialization. Walking and training can build the bond with your dog and definitely will build confidence. Urinating in his crate would indicate to me that he has been crated too long for a puppy. As puppies they can only hold it for hours equal to the months old. This may be part of the issue. If the puppy is not being well cared for it or ignored frequently it may be developing some significant insecurities. Forcing greeting issues is never a good idea... it just makes the dog sure that his concerns are justified.

One of my dogs was a scared dog, she had been tied out to live with no interactions with people. She was rescued at about 1 yr old. It took a couple of months to gain her trust in me and longer to make her comfortable with other people. Now she is fine with everyone. I hope your friend will work with his puppy and make sure he gets into training soon.

[teehayes1]

http://www.eurodobies.com


We both got our pups at 9 weeks. We both have taught our dogs sit, down, and stay and both have been dogs to puppy classes offered by our local pets mart and humane society. The pup is super shy for some reason. Joe works at home so the pup is not crated for long periods at all, even at night. The urination occurs after he has been out playing for long periods of time and has just returned from relieving himself outside. Its almost like its marking its territory (not sure if that makes a bit of since) or possibly can't control his bladder. He is never forced to meet, I guess that was a bad word. A new puppy gets attention from other pet lovers so if a person gets on one knee and attempts to pet the dog, he cowers away. I suggested he give family member treats and have them playfully call his name to reinforce that no danger is upcoming but that didn't work. I can attest that the puppy is well taken care of and these are things that I am hoping will work itself out of the pup, just as you spoke of your dog. I was just thinking that maybe there was something directly causing these few things.

[teehayes1]

http://www.eurodobies.com

My pups grandsire: Jugin Grand iz Zoosfery - Rus Ch, Rus Dobermann Club Winner, Multi-winner, BOB, BIS, IPO-I, BH, HD-A/B, OFA-Good, vWD-carrier

[Sue J]

teehayes 1: "or possibly can't control his bladder", could it be a UTI? When a dog is showing physical distress I think it's always good to check medical things first. If this is ruled out it, at 5 mo. he could be marking territory. Are there other dogs in your friend's house? Urinating at greeting sounds like a socialization issue to me too. Keep us posted.

[jelly8bean]

I'm with Sue on checking heath.... UTI is possible.

I can't imagine why a dog would cower away from anything at this age without some external cause. Puppies are explorers and in working with many rescued litters none are afraid of people without reason, just like aggression is not reasonable at this age. I am still thinking there is something else going on. My suggestion is to continue what you have started. Have new people come down in size, have a treat and be enticing to the puppy. My girl learned to sit when she was approached and it works very well. First she would sit by my side when approached and I would determine who got to pet (under the chin first and with a treat), now she sits with anyone new (like at petsmart) and then kind of walks on her butt up to the new folks to get the pets /treats. It is very endearing and folks really think she is such a polite dog (which she is not usually). But it does take time. Tell your friend to continue in classes and regular walking, it will really help.

[tidibole]

Canis Maximus is a breeder of Euro dobermans. If you are truly interested GOOGLE "Canis Maximus" and it will give you insight into their breeding program, expectations, etc. Silverhawk Dobermans also has a Canis Maximus stud...So you can also go to their site and form your own opinion. I think all too many times when breeders have TOO many litters at ONE TIME, they are unable to socialize puppies when it is most crucial or a puppy falls by the side. This can happen with American, Euro or any breeding. Puppies should be handled from a young age and also noted when one is perhaps not as outgoing as the rest. Granted I feel that there is a baseline for temperment and an expierenced breeder will know their lne and therefore know how to properly socialize each puppy. Most aggression in puppies and younger dogs is fear and uncertainty. It is difficult to correct and takes alot of dedication and knowledge. If not corrected at an early age it can perpetuate into a definite liabilty. Unfortunately, again I can speak from expereince...

[Dobs4ever]

So sorry to hear about our friends problem. But breeder play a huge role in the socialization process of a puppy. If the puppy had very little contact and daily interaction with humans then that puppy mentally was not stimulated and imprinted with humans. This can affect a puppy for the rest of its life and it will never be as outgoing as it could have been. But by this time it should have bounced back to some point so it seems like the breeder may also have some temperament issues in his line.

If the puppies were in a small area and not kept clean then they had to eliminate where they lived so he does not know any better. First thing I would do as Sue suggested is have a urine anaylsis to make sure there is not an infection going on. Then make sure the crate is throughly cleaned each time and bleached out of use an product that eliminates order. Clean the crate when the puppy is outside. Do not let them see you clean it up. Then when he comes back inside he has a clean crate. Do make sure he is going outside just before you bring him in.

Then put him in the crate - if he eliminates then say NO and take him back outside. I have found it helps greatly to have a command for outside duties. I use potty potty for peeing and duty duty for pooping. Put the puppy on a leash and teach the command and this will also help to teach the place. As you take the puppy to the door say outside Potty potty. Do not let him run loose and play until he potties. Then reward with a treat for outside elimination and praise - then you can release him to play.

Be sure he is on a feeding schedule. No food after 6 pm and no water after 7 so do all your inside playing and rough housing before 7 so he will not get hot and thirsty later.

A schedule helps the pup begin to understand what the boundries are. This will take dilligence and time to correct. Due to breeding and/or lack of early socialization will never be totally eliminated. This post is getting too long but I will address the socialization in another post if anyone feels it would be useful.

[tidibole]

So sorry to hear about our friends problem. But breeder play a huge role in the socialization process of a puppy. If the puppy had very little contact and daily interaction with humans then that puppy mentally was not stimulated and imprinted with humans. This can affect a puppy for the rest of its life and it will never be as outgoing as it could have been. But by this time it should have bounced back to some point so it seems like the breeder may also have some temperament issues in his line.

If the puppies were in a small area and not kept clean then they had to eliminate where they lived so he does not know any better. First thing I would do as Sue suggested is have a urine anaylsis to make sure there is not an infection going on. Then make sure the crate is throughly cleaned each time and bleached out of use an product that eliminates order. Clean the crate when the puppy is outside. Do not let them see you clean it up. Then when he comes back inside he has a clean crate. Do make sure he is going outside just before you bring him in.

Then put him in the crate - if he eliminates then say NO and take him back outside. I have found it helps greatly to have a command for outside duties. I use potty potty for peeing and duty duty for pooping. Put the puppy on a leash and teach the command and this will also help to teach the place. As you take the puppy to the door say outside Potty potty. Do not let him run loose and play until he potties. Then reward with a treat for outside elimination and praise - then you can release him to play.

Be sure he is on a feeding schedule. No food after 6 pm and no water after 7 so do all your inside playing and rough housing before 7 so he will not get hot and thirsty later.

A schedule helps the pup begin to understand what the boundries are. This will take dilligence and time to correct. Due to breeding and/or lack of early socialization will never be totally eliminated. This post is getting too long but I will address the socialization in another post if anyone feels it would be useful.

Many breeders keep their puppies outside in sheds, etc, this ultimtely does not benefit the puppy and certainly not the new owner. That is WHY research of the breeder is imperative to a well adjusted puppy and future ADULT......

[jelly8bean]

Dobs4ever.. yes please add some info on puppy socialization. I have seen another description that times things out by age (ie 3-6 weeks expect blah). That would be very helpful to add from your experience. Thanks :)

[Dobs4ever]

Ok I just wrote an article on this that was published in the UDC Focus. It is a multi facet post so won't get it all into this one but will start with where the puppy is now at 5 months.
1. Take the puppy out on leash to public places everyday if possible. Have tons of treats and this is the program to help the puppy overcome shyness.
Rule #1 Dobes do not retreat. So when the puppy freezes and does not move forward you hold your ground. Have a taught leash but do not force or pull the dog unless it is a last resort. So stand your ground and encourage the puppy to move forward. You might even have to sit down to get the puppy to come to you but then you praise and start again with more forward movement. If the dog just can't unfreeze then give a quick tug enough to get the puppy to have to take one step and release pressure and say "Good boy" Encourage again for the puppy to move forward. Repeat until the puppy will walk with you a few steps. This is NOT pulling the puppy but just unlocking until you get one or two steps and release pressure just enough that it no longer pulls the puppy but gives the puppy the chance to make the correct decision and move forward.

2. Do not baby talk this puppy. To a puppy baby talk tends to be interpreted to "hey being scared is OK" and that is not what you want to say. What you want to say is "Hey it is OK I am here and you can trust me so we will move forward as Dobermans do not retreat. No compromise on this.

3. Take the puppy to pet smart etc where it can meet tons of people. As people approach ask them if they will pet your dog. Tell them how to approach. Say here is a treat. (Hand them one as they probably don't have one with them) Tell them to hold the treat about 6" from the nose and just freeze there. The object is to get the puppy to move forward. If the puppy does not then they can slowly put the treat at the puppy's nose and feed - no petting or talking to the puppy at this point. After the puppyg gets to the point that they will accept a treat from different strangers then you up the anti.

4. Now ask the people to hold their hand out and scratch the puppy under the chin and the puppy holds its ground before they get the treat.

These are cnfidence and trust building exercises. Obedience also is a confidence builder. This is just the tip of the ice berg to rehabilitate this puppy, butis a good start.

Dobs4ever.. yes please add some info on puppy socialization. I have seen another description that times things out by age (ie 3-6 weeks expect blah). That would be very helpful to add from your experience. Thanks :)

[teehayes1]

My friends pup Jack is doing much better from the past few weeks time. With all the input and advice, I think he has him really close to being housebroken and getting better with socializing. It takes some redirecting the pup when walking in public but I see that he is getting better. It also came with some leadership from my friend instead of letting the pup just do as it wanted. He has done a lot of reading to help him as well as the puppy.

Great input from all. My friend and I thank you all for your advice.

[jelly8bean]

I'm so glad to hear it. Sometimes people don't realize that dogs and kids all do better with some rules. They think allowing them "freedom" is nicest.. but really it isn't. I read one trainer that said teaching a dog allows them the "freedom" to go with you anywhere in any situation, but giving them "freedom" as in no rules only gives them the 'freedom' of sitting in the yard. Which do you think they really prefer?