Straightening the sit

[jelly8bean]

Indigo is now two weeks past her last heartworm treatment and I'm starting to ramp up some work with her. However, what I now have an issue with is that when she sits, on or off leash, at my left side when we stop heeling she is somehow swinging her butt slightly around so she is crooked. I can get her straight by doing a finish, but this driving me nuts. She never used to do this (pre-treatment). Any suggestions to fix it?

[RKCM]

I got Dagger at 2 and he would sit wrong too. My trainer told me to work him on lease, reach down and lightly have him sit correctly. We trained on lead and are just doing this to make sure he practices right. His sit has improved on lead and looks beautiful. Although, we are new at obedience and are still training. His off lead sit isnt as good YET. Hope this helps.

Becky

[Big Dogs]

Jelly are you using an inside finish or an outside? Usually on a finish I prefer to use the outside bringing the dog around from the rear one thing is to make sure the dog doesn't get to far ahead of you in the sit at the end of the finish as the dog will actually have to turn to look at you this can be corrected pretty easily by using a piece of food initially close to your leg just past your center line. I would make sure the dog has it down perfect before moving off leash as it is harder to correct off leash. Another trick you can try not knowing which way the dog is swinging if it is away from you is to back up a 1/2 step when the dog is sitting he should have to slightly raise his butt and this will straighten him out some times. If it is really severe go beside a wall on your left side approximately 2-3 feet and finish him it will force him to finish correctly of course you can only do this with an outside finish. Good luck just a few tricks I'm sure he will get it before long.

[jelly8bean]

Thanks Big Dogs.. I use both finishes, but to correct this heeling sit, I have been using the left finish. When I use the right finish (around my back) she is perfect at the sit every time. I do think she is forging ahead of me a bit and looking at me. I will try to heel up to a wall or the back of the sofa and sit. Lots of click and treat for correct sitting. :)

RKCM.. I have thought about reaching down to push her into the proper position, but she is much to energetic for that in this situation. If I touch her, she instantly responses - usually over reacting so that is why I have been using finishes to fix her.

[Big Dogs]

Jelly I would only use 1 type of finish which ever one you decide as you want this to be an instinctive reaction at some point. When you aren't using treats anymore. If the dogs learns two ways of doing it your asking him to make a decision when the time comes to do it off leash. I personally prefer the outside method I have taught both, the outside method I believe gives me more control in the learning stages on leash and it is much easier to correct mistakes. But that's just my preference.Good luck I'm sure you will do fine.

[Dobs4ever]

Jelly - Big Dog gave some excellent solutions I do have one other that I use sometimes depending on which the dog responds to best. If you know the dog is going to do the swing butt out sit then you correct before the dog has a chance to do so. This is what I do for that correction. You are heeling along and you stop and call for the sit - timing is key on this exercise - but as the dog starts to sit take one steip forward and pull slightly straight out on the least at the same time. This encourages the dog to 1. move up into the sit as opposed to rocking back and corrects the butt swing out at the same time as it straightens the dog out before he goes crooked.

Good Luck with Indigo and glad to hear that Indigo is on the mend.

[jelly8bean]

Humm...Let me clarify Big Dog. I use/train both finishes as they are both required in Rally Obedience, which I currently do with my Rottie and hope to do by this fall with Indigo. However, what I am looking to improve is that nice standard by me sit when we stop during heeling. This is where I have the crooked sit, and I'm sure she is forging a bit now that I think about it. I am only using the finishes to straighten the sit since she really seems to have the finishes nicely down.

I have been re-instituting click and treat to get this behavior back and firm since we have had considerable time away from active work. (Bang Dead is not active work to me LOL) I work off leash in the house and yard typically, as Indigo has developed an nice attention heel and usually doesn't need the leash. But, I will add the leash for the next week to try to make sure this is corrected per your recommendations. Once we start being able to go on walks again (May) I feel confident I can work this out with interval training in our walk using some of the techniques you all have recommended. We can do sits in the gutter on the street to assure straightness using the curb rather than a wall so it works pretty well.

[Big Dogs]

Good luck jelly hope to hear your progress in the future!

[tidibole]

I heard/read? many years ago and am now personally using this technique. A thin (like the end portion of a fishing pole) stick, I am using 2 1/2' 1/4 inch in diameter stake for house plants. When we work and the sit is not straight or "pops" into place, I tap the offending portion of the dog with this stick, everso lightly and he has gotten to the point where he corrects his sit immediately. Also if he dosen't pop down fast enough OR sits back too far, he gets a tap and then of course the reward and praise. Initially he was worried about the "stick" but it took very little for him to realize this was not an instrument of torture...He has also learned to back while sitting in heel position, either by himself or with me. I have to mention that I use this stick merely as an extension of my arm all the while not having to move from my own position. I have excellent results with this procedure but perhaps it is not for everyone.

[jelly8bean]

I have seen that too. In a short lived Rally magazine, I saw it called a Heeling stick and you use it to guide/tap your dog to the right position. I think of it like a dressage whip in horseback riding, basically a longer arm. However, I have decided not to pursue this training aid, but to work with the basics of chose to heel and clicker training. Just my way of training.

[tidibole]

I have seen that too. In a short lived Rally magazine, I saw it called a Heeling stick and you use it to guide/tap your dog to the right position. I think of it like a dressage whip in horseback riding, basically a longer arm. However, I have decided not to pursue this training aid, but to work with the basics of chose to heel and clicker training. Just my way of training.

In all honesty I don't know enough regarding Clicker training to make an educated statement however, having trained my first rescue dog ILP) to both UKC/AKC CD titles back in '94, I just follow what seems to work for me, and he responds very nicely to the tap. I am thinking it may have originated with the Ann-Marie Silverton training tapes so popular back then.

[Rhiannon]

I actually had a dog that we had Gary Wilkes work with. He was one of the beginning trainers using the clicker method. I thought it took a long time to work with the dog using this method. Anyway Gary Wilkes worked with Karen Prior who is also one of the founders of the clicker training method. Gary is most noted as the founder of Click and Treat. He is a great guy to work with and if any of you ever get a chance to attend one of his seminars it is a real treat.

[Big Dogs]

Another thing came to mind that I assume everyone knows but most Dobe's and Boxers do not totally sit on there butt the way a Shepard does or most other working class dogs do. Which is a benefit when trying to straighten your dog out from the sit. I have seen the heeling pole used and tried it myself a couple of times with out much success on my part. An easy method to use on a dobe is if you are starting out is to tap there butt with your left foot and I said tap not kick this will back there butt away from you if it is to close. Be prepared as the first time you do it he will probably jump 3 feet in the air. To get there butt in line if it's out to far is take a half step to the left causing him to move his front end over lining him up with his butt. Just a couple more things to try. I've found since they do not like to actually sit totally on there butt there a little easier to correct. As far as the clicker method I like it for somethings but only in the early stages of training and not for everything. I't is hard for most of my clients to do properly and if I am training a class it is impossible to use with out creating confusion. Timing is everything if your going to clicker train.

[tidibole]

Another thing came to mind that I assume everyone knows but most Dobe's and Boxers do not totally sit on there butt the way a Shepard does or most other working class dogs do. Which is a benefit when trying to straighten your dog out from the sit. I have seen the heeling pole used and tried it myself a couple of times with out much success on my part. An easy method to use on a dobe is if you are starting out is to tap there butt with your left foot and I said tap not kick this will back there butt away from you if it is to close. Be prepared as the first time you do it he will probably jump 3 feet in the air. To get there butt in line if it's out to far is take a half step to the left causing him to move his front end over lining him up with his butt. Just a couple more things to try. I've found since they do not like to actually sit totally on there butt there a little easier to correct. As far as the clicker method I like it for somethings but only in the early stages of training and not for everything. I't is hard for most of my clients to do properly and if I am training a class it is impossible to use with out creating confusion. Timing is everything if your going to clicker train.

I use my foot as well but usually as a surprise element. Hope I can describe this adequately. When I do not get a prompt sit...I take my right leg behind my back and use the side of my foot to the TOP rear end. The whole time the dog is paying attention to me but has no idea at that moment where it came from. Has worked well for me for many years. And you are right about the sitting completely. that is why is was so easy to teach him to sccot back on his haunches without getting up. It is really neat to see. I had seen a top 10 doberman (again many years ago, both in obedience and conformation) in Wa. do that and I have never forgotten it. I think the lowest his obedience score was 198 1/2....with a ton of HIT in both specialities and all breed...the dog was incredible