This litter of puppies is crazy!

[bigandsmallpets]

:p This litter I think is By far the silliest I have ever had! Check these out !
But they are so cute!

[bigandsmallpets]

:p This litter I think is By far the silliest I have ever had! Check these out !
But they are so cute!
You know you always have a clown in the bunch, But 5 ?

[Sue J]

Way too cute!!! Have a ball with that bunch, they'll spark belly laughs :)

[violator]

they look great i must admit, do u sell to the public or the armed forces ?

[bigandsmallpets]

To the public or anyone really as long myself and the pup like them. You know you always have to listen to your dogs. They have this instinct and it is usually right.

[tidibole]

To the public or anyone really as long myself and the pup like them. You know you always have to listen to your dogs. They have this instinct and it is usually right.So cute!!!But then I have never seen an ugly puppy..LOL...Are these puppies Canadian Kennel Club registered?

[Dobs4ever]

I agree Tidibole _ I have never seen ugly puppies and that is often what gets people into trouble. They just can't resist the impulse.

[bigandsmallpets]

They are Continental Kennel Club.
ckcusa.com

[Dobs4ever]

May I ask why with the top well recognized and respected registry you would breed dogs tht are only registered in a registry that will register anything? Are you aware of any of the health issues in Dobermans??? Do you health test??? What are you wanting to accomplish with this undesirable registry??? You can't improve the breed in your program because you can't show or title your dogs in a recognized registry???

Are you interested in quality??? You won't have it with CKC registration. Do you openly tell your puppy buyers that the dogs are not AKC registered???

[bigandsmallpets]

May I ask why with the top well recognized and respected registry you would breed dogs tht are only registered in a registry that will register anything? Are you aware of any of the health issues in Dobermans??? Do you health test??? What are you wanting to accomplish with this undesirable registry??? You can't improve the breed in your program because you can't show or title your dogs in a recognized registry???

Are you interested in quality??? You won't have it with CKC registration. Do you openly tell your puppy buyers that the dogs are not AKC registered???
Yes i do openly tell my buyers that my pups are not AKC. I am by no means trying to sell something I know nothing about...... I choose not to go AKC due to the VERY HIGH cost of tha akc pups around here. Yes i am aware of the health issues of dobermans and yes I do test my dogs and pups my vet and my dogs are very well aquainted thank you. I DO NOT BREED FOR SHOW OR TITLES I BREED FOR PETS[/COLOR][/U][/B]. There is nothing wrong with the CKC adn they do have shows and titles. I am not trying to sell pups to make alot of money just to connect people like me with the GREAT breed of DOBERMAN with out breaking there bank account! With all due respect I do produce quality puppys. Just because they don't have AKC papers doesn't mean that they are not quailty dogs!!!

[tidibole]

Yes i do openly tell my buyers that my pups are not AKC. I am by no means trying to sell something I know nothing about...... I choose not to go AKC due to the VERY HIGH cost of tha akc pups around here. Yes i am aware of the health issues of dobermans and yes I do test my dogs and pups my vet and my dogs are very well aquainted thank you. I DO NOT BREED FOR SHOW OR TITLES I BREED FOR PETS[/COLOR][/U][/B]. There is nothing wrong with the CKC adn they do have shows and titles. I am not trying to sell pups to make alot of money just to connect people like me with the GREAT breed of DOBERMAN with out breaking there bank account! With all due respect I do produce quality puppys. Just because they don't have AKC papers doesn't mean that they are not quailty dogs!!!

Quality is a word that is used entirely to easily with absolutely no regard to the actual definition. YES, the lack of AKC papers does make one question qulaity. ANYONE for $12.00 and a photo can register any unregistered dog with CKC as long as they APPEAR purebred. Generally breeders who cannot register with other more legitimate registries are able to go CKC. Also AKC dogs can be bred and placed without "breaking the bank" to your customers. I also think that you perhaps have some confusion regarding "health testing" It does not mean that a puppy is examined by your vet prior to shipping or placement or the vet indicates that the breeding dogs are "healthy", have current inoculations, wormed etc... It is the testing of adult breeding dogs prior to producing litters with the intent of elimimating health problems that can be perpetuated by certain breedings, i.e vWD, hips, thyroid/liver and unfortunately the list goes on. Most breeders are proud of the dogs that they breed and therefore place all health testing on their website as well as any accompolishments. I think that this forum has great possibilty to inform the public and I would like for you to continue to read and learn, but this is not a place to attempt to sell your puppies or to advertise through the attachment of your website. I hope you will remain and learn and perhaps evaluate the reasons that you not only breed but register CKC...Learn about the health testing, the real issues within the breed, the responsibilty of proper placement and not just because you "like someone" and perhaps enjoy the benefit of owning AKC dogs. Look at the rescues, they are full of dobermans, many have come from less than stellar breeding situations. You must accept the responsibilty for every dog you have bred and placed and that in itself is overwhelming. There is a wealth of information available on this forum from rescues, to training to breeding, and yes, even showing, please utilize it.

[Dobs4ever]

FYI even many dogs registered AKC are not quality. BUT it would be far better still to go to a BYB AKC dog that is less money than a dog that is not registered in the top world recognized registry. It does cause great concern. I have had many pet homes later because of the quality of the dog decided to show in obedience. Your families can't do that. They can't show in any registry with CKC regisitration, they are not a respected registry at all like UKC, FCI, IABCA, UDC are all recognized and accept AKC registration.

An AKC registration is accepted by all other registries including FCI becasue they have extablished quality in their registration program and standards. With AKC you can actually track back the bloodline and have a much better chance of finding out what health issues might be present.

Do you know the Doberman Standard??? Do you know how to evaluate your own dogs against that standard???

Do you have a contract and sell puppies on a spay/neuter contract??? - OOOPS CKC has not have such a quality control program. Do you stay in contact with the families and help them through issues etc. If you have never titled a dog then how do you help your families with training issues???? Do you protect your puppies with a contract that says you take all puppies back - they are not to be sold, turned in to a pound etc???? This is quality breeding.

FYI a vet can only tell you that on the surface the dog is healthy. Vwd testing is $99.00 to $149.00 - Are your dogs Vwd tested through Vet Gen? OFA hips is $55.00 to send in and then $120.00 for the X rays - Are your breeding dogs OFAed? Cardio testing - 24 hour holter monitor is $400 to 500.00, Echo is $400 to $500. are any of your dogs holtered or Echoed? Do you do full blood panel with Thyroid t-3 and t-4 through an approved lab??? This is breeding for quality and to protect and preserve the integrity and quality of the breed.

Are you a member of DPCA??? Do you work to support the breed club that supports and protects our breed??? This is quality.

The problem with CKC registration and the propetuation of "cheap" dogs per your explanation is that they go to people who are not interested in quality or responsibility of ownership and then fall into the hands of idiots who misuse the dog and either have a dog that bites, or is used as bait for fighting dogs. That is what people with your philosophy will contribute to and in the end will cause all of us to loose our dogs.

Are you involved in the fight against BSL??? There is so much that goes into quality and you have not even begun to understand the importance of a breeding program. And lastly I have to agree with tidibole that this is not a place for you to advertise to sell your puppies. People on this list care far more about our breed than to stoop to buy a CKC registered dog. I can go to the pound and get a dog to reg CKC, do you get the picture??? Quality begats quality and yes I agree with you that you don't know anything at all about it.

[tidibole]

I truly hope that all the inofrmation and suggestions provided will help you to make a responsible choice not only to breeding practices but also you intention to further the breed..

[jelly8bean]

All.. puppies are on the ground, so that is that. I have no problems with education a "pet" breeder about the downside, but let's not get gnarly about it.

[tidibole]

All.. puppies are on the ground, so that is that. I have no problems with education a "pet" breeder about the downside, but let's not get gnarly about it.I am truly sorry, but I see no downside to my post regarding this situation. whether on the ground or not!

[Dobs4ever]

Jelly - I know they are on the ground - she couldn't wait to tell us so in order to hopefully get some orders. If my post was gnarly then I ask you to please point out anything I said that was wrong and I will certainly apologize openly on the fourm to everyone. I know you are strong on rescue and you know very well that there are far more puppies bred like this that end up in rescue than from a breeder working hard to prmote, title, tempearament test, health test etc.

I don't take it lightly as I get calls all the time from people who buy dogs like these and then the breeder disappears if a problem arises or doesn't know how to help answer even the easiest questions and/or they can't find a vet to do their ears. How do you prefer we address this on the list. I have always stood ready and willing to help anyone, but they have to want to learn and improve.

[bigandsmallpets]

FYI even many dogs registered AKC are not quality. BUT it would be far better still to go to a BYB AKC dog that is less money than a dog that is not registered in the top world recognized registry. It does cause great concern. I have had many pet homes later because of the quality of the dog decided to show in obedience. Your families can't do that. They can't show in any registry with CKC regisitration, they are not a respected registry at all like UKC, FCI, IABCA, UDC are all recognized and accept AKC registration.

An AKC registration is accepted by all other registries including FCI becasue they have extablished quality in their registration program and standards. With AKC you can actually track back the bloodline and have a much better chance of finding out what health issues might be present.

Do you know the Doberman Standard??? Do you know how to evaluate your own dogs against that standard???

Do you have a contract and sell puppies on a spay/neuter contract??? - OOOPS CKC has not have such a quality control program. Do you stay in contact with the families and help them through issues etc. If you have never titled a dog then how do you help your families with training issues???? Do you protect your puppies with a contract that says you take all puppies back - they are not to be sold, turned in to a pound etc???? This is quality breeding.

FYI a vet can only tell you that on the surface the dog is healthy. Vwd testing is $99.00 to $149.00 - Are your dogs Vwd tested through Vet Gen? OFA hips is $55.00 to send in and then $120.00 for the X rays - Are your breeding dogs OFAed? Cardio testing - 24 hour holter monitor is $400 to 500.00, Echo is $400 to $500. are any of your dogs holtered or Echoed? Do you do full blood panel with Thyroid t-3 and t-4 through an approved lab??? This is breeding for quality and to protect and preserve the integrity and quality of the breed.

Are you a member of DPCA??? Do you work to support the breed club that supports and protects our breed??? This is quality.

The problem with CKC registration and the propetuation of "cheap" dogs per your explanation is that they go to people who are not interested in quality or responsibility of ownership and then fall into the hands of idiots who misuse the dog and either have a dog that bites, or is used as bait for fighting dogs. That is what people with your philosophy will contribute to and in the end will cause all of us to loose our dogs.

Are you involved in the fight against BSL??? There is so much that goes into quality and you have not even begun to understand the importance of a breeding program. And lastly I have to agree with tidibole that this is not a place for you to advertise to sell your puppies. People on this list care far more about our breed than to stoop to buy a CKC registered dog. I can go to the pound and get a dog to reg CKC, do you get the picture??? Quality begats quality and yes I agree with you that you don't know anything at all about it.
:mad:
The paperwork my dogs came with is what I am dealing with ........
You want to preach about my website adn my prometing my babies then I assume you have been to my website and seen that in deed I have a spay/nuter contract, a health contrat and a stud contract adn do stand by my dogs no matter what the cost. I stay in very close contact with my buyers and try to answer any questions that they may have or help with problems that may arise. As I said before my dogs and my vet are very close! All test have been done on my female and my male! I am not your A typical CKC breeder I agree with you most of your CKC breeders are just out for the money and don't care about the betterment of the breed but not ALL :rolleyes: That is were you prejudgeing people has gotten you. I am not trying to sell you or anyone else my pups on here I was just here to talk Dobie just like you . So aim your Attitude somewhere Else!!!!! :mad:
Back off you don't know a thing about me or my Dogs!

[bigandsmallpets]

By the way here are the AKC standerds you asked about!
Working Group
General Appearance
The appearance is that of a dog of medium size, with a body that is square. Compactly built, muscular and powerful, for great endurance and speed. Elegant in appearance, of proud carriage, reflecting great nobility and temperament. Energetic, watchful, determined, alert, fearless, loyal and obedient.

Size, Proportion, Substance
Height at the withers: Dogs 26 to 28 inches, ideal about 27½ inches; Bitches 24 to 26 inches, ideal about 25½ inches. The height, measured vertically from the ground to the highest point of the withers, equalling the length measured horizontally from the forechest to the rear projection of the upper thigh. Length of head, neck and legs in proportion to length and depth of body.

Head
Long and dry, resembling a blunt wedge in both frontal and profile views. When seen from the front, the head widens gradually toward the base of the ears in a practically unbroken line. Eyes almond shaped, moderately deep set, with vigorous, energetic expression. Iris, of uniform color, ranging from medium to darkest brown in black dogs; in reds, blues, and fawns the color of the iris blends with that of the markings, the darkest shade being preferable in every case. Ears normally cropped and carried erect. The upper attachment of the ear, when held erect, is on a level with the top of the skull.

Top of skull flat, turning with slight stop to bridge of muzzle, with muzzle line extending parallel to top line of skull. Cheeks flat and muscular. Nose solid black on black dogs, dark brown on red ones, dark gray on blue ones, dark tan on fawns. Lips lying close to jaws. Jaws full and powerful, well filled under the eyes.

Teeth strongly developed and white. Lower incisors upright and touching inside of upper incisors a true scissors bite. 42 correctly placed teeth, 22 in the lower, 20 in the upper jaw. Distemper teeth shall not be penalized. Disqualifying Faults: Overshot more than 3/16 of an inch. Undershot more than 1/8 of an inch. Four or more missing teeth.

Neck, Topline, Body
Neck proudly carried, well muscled and dry. Well arched, with nape of neck widening gradually toward body. Length of neck proportioned to body and head. Withers pronounced and forming the highest point of the body. Back short, firm, of sufficient width, and muscular at the loins, extending in a straight line from withers to the slightly rounded croup.

Chest broad with forechest well defined. Ribs well sprung from the spine, but flattened in lower end to permit elbow clearance. Brisket reaching deep to the elbow. Belly well tucked up, extending in a curved line from the brisket. Loins wide and muscled. Hips broad and in proportion to body, breadth of hips being approximately equal to breadth of body at rib cage and shoulders. Tail docked at approximately second joint, appears to be a continuation of the spine, and is carried only slightly above the horizontal when the dog is alert.

Forequarters
Shoulder Blade - sloping forward and downward at a 45-degree angle to the ground meets the upper arm at an angle of 90 degrees. Length of shoulder blade and upper arm are equal. Height from elbow to withers approximately equals height from ground to elbow. Legs seen from front and side, perfectly straight and parallel to each other from elbow to pastern; muscled and sinewy, with heavy bone. In normal pose and when gaiting, the elbows lie close to the brisket. Pasterns firm and almost perpendicular to the ground. Dewclaws may be removed. Feet well arched, compact, and catlike, turning neither in nor out.

Hindquarters
The angulation of the hindquarters balances that of the forequarters. Hip Bone falls away from spinal column at an angle of about 30 degrees, producing a slightly rounded, well filled-out croup. Upper Shanks at right angles to the hip bones, are long, wide, and well muscled on both sides of thigh, with clearly defined stifles. Upper and lower shanks are of equal length. While the dog is at rest, hock to heel is perpendicular to the ground. Viewed from the rear, the legs are straight, parallel to each other, and wide enough apart to fit in with a properly built body. Dewclaws, if any, are generally removed. Cat feet as on front legs, turning neither in nor out.

Coat
Smooth-haired, short, hard, thick and close lying. Invisible gray undercoat on neck permissible.

Color and Markings
Allowed Colors: Black, red, blue, and fawn (Isabella). Markings: Rust, sharply defined, appearing above each eye and on muzzle, throat and forechest, on all legs and feet, and below tail. White patch on chest, not exceeding ½ square inch, permissible. Disqualifying Fault: Dogs not of an allowed color.

Gait
Free, balanced, and vigorous, with good reach in the forequarters and good driving power in the hindquarters. When trotting, there is strong rear-action drive. Each rear leg moves in line with the foreleg on the same side. Rear and front legs are thrown neither in nor out. Back remains strong and firm. When moving at a fast trot, a properly built dog will single-track.

Temperament
Energetic, watchful, determined, alert, fearless, loyal and obedient. The judge shall dismiss from the ring any shy or vicious Doberman.

Shyness: A dog shall be judged fundamentally shy if, refusing to stand for examination, it shrinks away from the judge; if it fears an approach from the rear; if it shies at sudden and unusual noises to a marked degree.

Viciousness: A dog that attacks or attempts to attack either the judge or its handler, is definitely vicious. An aggressive or belligerent attitude towards other dogs shall not be deemed viciousness.

Faults
The foregoing description is that of the ideal Doberman Pinscher. Any deviation from the above described dog must be penalized to the extent of the deviation.

Disqualifications
Overshot more than 3/16 of an inch, undershot more than 1/8 of an inch. Four or more missing teeth.
Dogs not of an allowed color.

[bigandsmallpets]

Continental Kennel Club has created a remarkable program for breeders combining practical guidelines with high breeding standards to help them produce quality dogs. The Preferred Breeders Program is an optional program that will assist breeders in establishing and maintaining a first-class breeding program. This program will help breeders sustain a healthy long term relationship with their dogs and customers. Breeders that maintain good standing in the Preferred Breeders Program will receive many benefits for their efforts in bettering the breeds of dogs of the world.

Benefits of the Preferred Breeders Program
Breeders that are accepted into the Preferred Breeder Program will be offered many venues to publish the results of their breeding program. Below is a list of benefits that CKC breeders will receive if accepted into the PBP.
1. Preferred listing of CKC website and magazine ads. As a CKC Preferred Breeder, your ads will be designed and placed so that they draw attention from viewers. Ads that are placed with CKC will identify you as a CKC Preferred Breeder.

2. CKC will provide a special preferred breeder listing recognizing all current preferred breeders on both the CKC website and in the CKC quarterly magazine.

3. In addition to preferential placement of advertisement, you will receive discounts on all ads placed on CKC’s website at www.ckcusa.com and in the Continental Kennel Club Magazine.
4. Members of the PBP will also enjoy references by CKC staff members to office inquiries looking for a particular breed. In phone correspondence, emails, and other office contacts, customers looking for good breeders in their area, will be given your name as a CKC Preferred Breeder.

5. Proper identification of your dogs is very important, and we have made it a part of the Preferred Breeder Program. In order to help you get all of your dogs identified, we will give CKC Preferred Breeders discounts on all microchip kits purchased from CKC. If your canines already have microchips, CKC will place those numbers on their registration certificates free of charge.
6. As a Preferred Breeder, Continental Kennel Club will reserve your bloodline names. CKC knows the importance of protecting your name as a Preferred Breeder and will insure that your bloodline name is not used by other CKC members. As a PBP member, we will not allow other members to use your bloodline names without your permission.
7. CKC Preferred Breeders will also receive preferred naming rights. Names of dogs produced by Preferred Breeders will not be allowed to be changed when transferring the dog to a new owner without your express written permission.
8. CKC Preferred Breeders will be able to assign a puppy that they produced a Limited Registration which means that the puppy will not be able to produce offspring registerable through CKC and will not be able to compete in any conformation events. Limited Registrations give the Preferred Breeders more choices for their registration needs.

Requirements for the Preferred Breeders Program
If you are ready to accept the challenge of becoming an excellent breeder, the first step is easy. You simply have to contact Continental Kennel Club to order a Preferred Breeders Program (PBP) application packet. You can call our office anytime Monday through Friday from 8am to 5pm CST. Our number is 1-800-952-3376. Once you get your PBP Packet in the mail, you will be required to:

1. Complete the Preferred Breeders Program application. You must write legibly using blue or black ink and make sure you sign the application,
2. Read, understand, and agree to Continental Kennel Club’s Breeder Code of Ethics. This is the foundation of CKC’s Preferred Breeder Program and it will help you to produce happier, healthier dogs. The CKC Breeder Code of Ethics is included below for your review. CKC is pleased with the level of commitment that our Preferred Breeders are willing to accept to be a part of this prestigious program,
3. Include photographs of your kennel area, grooming area, and training/exercise area. These photographs must be clear and encompass all aspects of your kennel. Photos of your kennel housing and all kennel runs should be included,

4. Send copies of your current puppy/dog sale and stud contracts. This will help us to better understand your relationship with your customers,

5. Send in the proper fees for the program. The fee for our program is $100 dollars during the initial sign up and $50 dollars each additional year thereafter. This fee is non-refundable.

Maintaining Your Status As A Preferred Breeder

Once CKC has received all of the required information and fees for the Preferred Breeders Program, the applicant’s information will be reviewed at CKC. If approved as a Preferred Breeder, you will be required to comply with the program in the following ways:

1. Offer Continental Kennel Club registrations on all puppies placed. This will ensure that accurate records are kept of your breeding history and future puppy owners will be able to see the history of their canines.
2. Submit to random inspections of your facilities. In order to ensure that breeders in this program are using our guidelines correctly and raising dogs in a healthy environment, we must be able to check your breeding grounds from time to time.

3. Attempt to resolve customer complaints in a timely manner and to CKC’s satisfaction. We want to ensure that puppy buyers are happy, and part of your responsibility as a CKC Preferred Breeder is customer satisfaction.
Read over the CKC Breeder Code of Ethics below to understand the commitment expected of breeders in the CKC Preferred Breeders Program. If you have any questions about this unique program, you may contact our office at 1-800-952-3376 and speak to a CKC operator.
Breeder Code of Ethics
The Continental Kennel Club Breeder Code of Ethics presents to CKC Breeders, guidelines for ethical practices of breeding, possession and sales of canines.
1. Provide clean, adequate, safe housing and run areas specific to the nature and exercise requirements for the breed.

2. Research the breed before breeding. Know the standard and only breed dogs that show proper breed type and temperament. Consider the strengths and weaknesses of each potential pairing. Always breed to better the breed.

3. Perform all customary health tests for your breed prior to breeding, and disclose all results to possible puppy buyers. If health tests were not performed, disclose that fact to any possible puppy buyers.

4. Ensure that all breeding dogs are positively identifiable. Microchips, DNA, photo registration, and tattoos are all acceptable forms of identification.

5. Breed dogs that are in good health, temperamentally sound, and free from genetic faults.

6. Obtain a signed stud dog contract prior to breeding. The stud contract should, at minimum, designate the number of ties that will be allowed, the amount of time between ties, the stud fee or pick of the litter, address how a single puppy litter will be handled, and address what each party will do if no puppies are yielded.

7. Only breed dogs that are physically and mentally mature enough to breed, and do not continue to breed any male or female that is unfit for breeding.

8. Make every effort possible to ensure that puppies are in good health and free from genetic defects at the time of sale.

9. Review each prospective buyer carefully and make every effort to ensure that each puppy is placed in a home that is in the best interest of the new owner and the puppy.

10. Help to educate puppy buyers about the breed and what is required in terms of exercise, nutrition, training, and socialization.

11. Make both parent dogs available for viewing to potential puppy buyers along with proper registration papers of the parents.

12. Provide each new puppy owner with the proper paperwork to register their new puppy at the time the puppy leaves the breeder’s premises. This should include at a minimum: registration form for the puppy, health and shot information, and a signed contract.

13. Include in each signed puppy contract a minimum of: a return policy and time limit, explanation of health guarantee and time limit, and spay/neuter requirements, if any.

14. Any advertising, whether oral or written, shall be factual, not misleading, and not designed to attract undesirable buyers or to encourage the raising of dogs for any undesirable reason.

[tidibole]

Continental Kennel Club has created a remarkable program for breeders combining practical guidelines with high breeding standards to help them produce quality dogs. The Preferred Breeders Program is an optional program that will assist breeders in establishing and maintaining a first-class breeding program. This program will help breeders sustain a healthy long term relationship with their dogs and customers. Breeders that maintain good standing in the Preferred Breeders Program will receive many benefits for their efforts in bettering the breeds of dogs of the world.

Benefits of the Preferred Breeders Program
Breeders that are accepted into the Preferred Breeder Program will be offered many venues to publish the results of their breeding program. Below is a list of benefits that CKC breeders will receive if accepted into the PBP.
1. Preferred listing of CKC website and magazine ads. As a CKC Preferred Breeder, your ads will be designed and placed so that they draw attention from viewers. Ads that are placed with CKC will identify you as a CKC Preferred Breeder.

2. CKC will provide a special preferred breeder listing recognizing all current preferred breeders on both the CKC website and in the CKC quarterly magazine.

3. In addition to preferential placement of advertisement, you will receive discounts on all ads placed on CKC’s website at www.ckcusa.com and in the Continental Kennel Club Magazine.
4. Members of the PBP will also enjoy references by CKC staff members to office inquiries looking for a particular breed. In phone correspondence, emails, and other office contacts, customers looking for good breeders in their area, will be given your name as a CKC Preferred Breeder.

5. Proper identification of your dogs is very important, and we have made it a part of the Preferred Breeder Program. In order to help you get all of your dogs identified, we will give CKC Preferred Breeders discounts on all microchip kits purchased from CKC. If your canines already have microchips, CKC will place those numbers on their registration certificates free of charge.
6. As a Preferred Breeder, Continental Kennel Club will reserve your bloodline names. CKC knows the importance of protecting your name as a Preferred Breeder and will insure that your bloodline name is not used by other CKC members. As a PBP member, we will not allow other members to use your bloodline names without your permission.
7. CKC Preferred Breeders will also receive preferred naming rights. Names of dogs produced by Preferred Breeders will not be allowed to be changed when transferring the dog to a new owner without your express written permission.
8. CKC Preferred Breeders will be able to assign a puppy that they produced a Limited Registration which means that the puppy will not be able to produce offspring registerable through CKC and will not be able to compete in any conformation events. Limited Registrations give the Preferred Breeders more choices for their registration needs.

Requirements for the Preferred Breeders Program
If you are ready to accept the challenge of becoming an excellent breeder, the first step is easy. You simply have to contact Continental Kennel Club to order a Preferred Breeders Program (PBP) application packet. You can call our office anytime Monday through Friday from 8am to 5pm CST. Our number is 1-800-952-3376. Once you get your PBP Packet in the mail, you will be required to:

1. Complete the Preferred Breeders Program application. You must write legibly using blue or black ink and make sure you sign the application,
2. Read, understand, and agree to Continental Kennel Club’s Breeder Code of Ethics. This is the foundation of CKC’s Preferred Breeder Program and it will help you to produce happier, healthier dogs. The CKC Breeder Code of Ethics is included below for your review. CKC is pleased with the level of commitment that our Preferred Breeders are willing to accept to be a part of this prestigious program,
3. Include photographs of your kennel area, grooming area, and training/exercise area. These photographs must be clear and encompass all aspects of your kennel. Photos of your kennel housing and all kennel runs should be included,

4. Send copies of your current puppy/dog sale and stud contracts. This will help us to better understand your relationship with your customers,

5. Send in the proper fees for the program. The fee for our program is $100 dollars during the initial sign up and $50 dollars each additional year thereafter. This fee is non-refundable.

Maintaining Your Status As A Preferred Breeder

Once CKC has received all of the required information and fees for the Preferred Breeders Program, the applicant’s information will be reviewed at CKC. If approved as a Preferred Breeder, you will be required to comply with the program in the following ways:

1. Offer Continental Kennel Club registrations on all puppies placed. This will ensure that accurate records are kept of your breeding history and future puppy owners will be able to see the history of their canines.
2. Submit to random inspections of your facilities. In order to ensure that breeders in this program are using our guidelines correctly and raising dogs in a healthy environment, we must be able to check your breeding grounds from time to time.

3. Attempt to resolve customer complaints in a timely manner and to CKC’s satisfaction. We want to ensure that puppy buyers are happy, and part of your responsibility as a CKC Preferred Breeder is customer satisfaction.
Read over the CKC Breeder Code of Ethics below to understand the commitment expected of breeders in the CKC Preferred Breeders Program. If you have any questions about this unique program, you may contact our office at 1-800-952-3376 and speak to a CKC operator.
Breeder Code of Ethics
The Continental Kennel Club Breeder Code of Ethics presents to CKC Breeders, guidelines for ethical practices of breeding, possession and sales of canines.
1. Provide clean, adequate, safe housing and run areas specific to the nature and exercise requirements for the breed.

2. Research the breed before breeding. Know the standard and only breed dogs that show proper breed type and temperament. Consider the strengths and weaknesses of each potential pairing. Always breed to better the breed.

3. Perform all customary health tests for your breed prior to breeding, and disclose all results to possible puppy buyers. If health tests were not performed, disclose that fact to any possible puppy buyers.

4. Ensure that all breeding dogs are positively identifiable. Microchips, DNA, photo registration, and tattoos are all acceptable forms of identification.

5. Breed dogs that are in good health, temperamentally sound, and free from genetic faults.

6. Obtain a signed stud dog contract prior to breeding. The stud contract should, at minimum, designate the number of ties that will be allowed, the amount of time between ties, the stud fee or pick of the litter, address how a single puppy litter will be handled, and address what each party will do if no puppies are yielded.

7. Only breed dogs that are physically and mentally mature enough to breed, and do not continue to breed any male or female that is unfit for breeding.

8. Make every effort possible to ensure that puppies are in good health and free from genetic defects at the time of sale.

9. Review each prospective buyer carefully and make every effort to ensure that each puppy is placed in a home that is in the best interest of the new owner and the puppy.

10. Help to educate puppy buyers about the breed and what is required in terms of exercise, nutrition, training, and socialization.

11. Make both parent dogs available for viewing to potential puppy buyers along with proper registration papers of the parents.

12. Provide each new puppy owner with the proper paperwork to register their new puppy at the time the puppy leaves the breeder’s premises. This should include at a minimum: registration form for the puppy, health and shot information, and a signed contract.

13. Include in each signed puppy contract a minimum of: a return policy and time limit, explanation of health guarantee and time limit, and spay/neuter requirements, if any.

14. Any advertising, whether oral or written, shall be factual, not misleading, and not designed to attract undesirable buyers or to encourage the raising of dogs for any undesirable reason.

I appreciate that you took the time to copy the CKC code of ethics?? and also put much thought into this post. the question regarding the AKC standard was intentioned upon whether you yourself was familiar and not us! I had the opportunity to view your contracts as per you website and your own admission, although I feel that you are making an attempt to validate your breeding program with authenticity, your guarantee appears to be non existant beyond the 7 day period for a vet check. Which certainly does not include any of the required health testing and/or results. The one item I did find extremely curious was your stud Contract which basically stipulates that bitches must be AKC, you want OFA info as well as any titles? Interestingly ehough why would someone want to breed an AKC titled dog to CKC untitled, untested and probably unpedigreed etc male and reduce their own registry to a CKC... I trully hope that you can learn from this thread and do not feel that it is a personal attack on you but merely education to make your further program more valuable. I woulod also think that a more valued publication would be the Digest or similar instead of the CKC info...

[tidibole]

As per your contrract you are asking for things from the bitch that you are either unwilling or unable to supply for the stud. Also as per your health guarantee, retained testicles and hernia? a hernia unfortunately is seen within the first 7 days, and a puppy that indeed does have a hernia should either have it repaired prior to placement or stipulated in a contract during altering...Retained testicles should also be addressed prior to sale as this in itself if not altered can create a life threatening issue. If you would like to PM me instead, please FREE...

[bigandsmallpets]

Thank you for pointing out the mistakes on my stud contract and my health Guarantee. Yes When and if a problem arises with one of my puppies I take them back and have them fixed if they are not already. As for my documents I got them from an AKC breeder who has been trying to help me out by being a mentor and teaching more and more about the breed standerds. I am trying to get this right. I fell more like you are trying to help me veres Dobs4ever who I feel like is making it personal against me. When I first started with the dobie I had no Idea that there was so much to take in but since am trying to learn everything I can. I had no Idea of the Vast differences in the CKC,AKC or anyother registery when I first started in all this about 16 years ago but since have learned so much and am trying to make the best out of what I have been given.

[tidibole]

Thank you for pointing out the mistakes on my stud contract and my health Guarantee. Yes When and if a problem arises with one of my puppies I take them back and have them fixed if they are not already. As for my documents I got them from an AKC breeder who has been trying to help me out by being a mentor and teaching more and more about the breed standerds. I am trying to get this right. I fell more like you are trying to help me veres Dobs4ever who I feel like is making it personal against me. When I first started with the dobie I had no Idea that there was so much to take in but since am trying to learn everything I can. I had no Idea of the Vast differences in the CKC,AKC or anyother registery when I first started in all this about 16 years ago but since have learned so much and am trying to make the best out of what I have been given.We have all made mistakes, not a one of us was born knowing what to do...BUT once you understand you have to educate yourself an proceed in a positive manner. My first dobe was unreg'd blue and came from a TRULLY crappy situation, I knew nothing...paid a whooping $50.00 for him and he was bald at age one. My next dobe also a blue from a show breeder and actively campaigned on the West coast, I learned and even though breeding is not for me per say, I still take my hat off to those can be a benefit to the breed. That should be your goal. Showing is very strenuous but oh, so much fun, brings in that competitive spirit. Let me also tell you, there are Dobe people that are downright nasty, Dobs4ever, really isn't one of them. She is really a very knowledgeable person with a great deal of expereince to share.

[Dobs4ever]

I am glad to see that you are open to conversation. A breeder is always open to more scrutiny than anyone else as breeders carry the total responsiblity of preserving and protecting the breed. We have to be able to take the heat and answer questions because we owe it to our Dobes and families.

The questions were not meant to be mean but are serious concerns for our breed. I am glad that you found the standard on the web and downloaded it. I know that I have studied it for over 15 years, shown, worked titled my dogs and gotten the critiques of judges to help me develop my eye and still am not perfect. I hope you will, through study see some of the problems I spoke of especially with CKC registration and especially if you are looking to provide quality.

As far as the CKC registration breeder program it is mostly based on what ads you can place and discounts you can get - of course they are in it to make money as is AKC. So I did not see that it was anything to aspire to that came close to DPCA and their program. They are a struggling registry and that is why they will register anything.

I did ask about health testing and you did not address that issue. Perhaps you overlooked it. But I did ask about VWD status through DNA testing as well as OFA. I did, since you brought it up go to your website and read your stud agreement and see you do require OFA and that is why I wondered if you have OFA certification on your dogs. My dogs are very close to my vet also but my vet is not qualified to do the testing required for Dobermans used in a breeding program. Those test are through specialist and are very costly.

I also saw where you required the bitch to be temperament tested titled and wondered what temperament test your male has??? WAC, ATT, ATTS??? If you are not familiar wit those titles I will be happy to give you info to study.

As far as standing by your dogs you do have a buy back option but can choose not to exercise it- not a I take all dogs back at anytime for any reason as that is standing behind them I take all dogs back no questions asked. No puppy can be sold, rehomed or turned into a pound. They come right back here. I am responsible for the well being of that dog for its entire life. That is standing behind what you produce.

I am not prejudging. The standard of quality set by the DPCA is the judge. If you are striving to meet those standards then that is quality. If you are not then their does not need to be any judging as the standard and COE has spoken and stands alone. I know that they do not recognize CKC registration unless it is Canadian kennel Club. Unfortunatley other low class registries try to piggy back by using very close names with the same initials to mislead the public.

Thanks for responding and hope we can continue to learn and improve as I am sure that this discussin will help others in the future to avoid some serious mistakes

Since we are here to discuss Dobes I felt the questions ask were very valid and were questions that needed to be asked. If we are not open to scruitiny then how do we learn?


:mad:
The paperwork my dogs came with is what I am dealing with ........
You want to preach about my website adn my prometing my babies then I assume you have been to my website and seen that in deed I have a spay/nuter contract, a health contrat and a stud contract adn do stand by my dogs no matter what the cost. I stay in very close contact with my buyers and try to answer any questions that they may have or help with problems that may arise. As I said before my dogs and my vet are very close! All test have been done on my female and my male! I am not your A typical CKC breeder I agree with you most of your CKC breeders are just out for the money and don't care about the betterment of the breed but not ALL :rolleyes: That is were you prejudgeing people has gotten you. I am not trying to sell you or anyone else my pups on here I was just here to talk Dobie just like you . So aim your Attitude somewhere Else!!!!! :mad:
Back off you don't know a thing about me or my Dogs!

[teehayes1]

Congratulations on the pups, I pray u have nothing but success with the placement, the puppies, and future puppy owners!!! Please do not allow a few bad post for you not to pass the word of how helpful this forum can be for dobie owners seeking sound free advice. Now Please folks lets not allow this forum to take shape of other forums about breeders. There are no such things as breeding gods! I read this forum daily to continue to get good info and wonderful stories from fellow doberman lover not to feel uncomfortable about breeders bickering. "I do thyroid, I do AKC, I do working, I do Euro, I do confirmation, I do agility..." I am a beginner and plainly see that there is a problem but even more obvious, there is a better way to address ones feelings than a page long reply to why YOU (more finger pointing) should be placed in front of the firing squad for thinking of breeding. There is always someone better than thou so should that better person look down upon the other person? Too much finger pointing when a person comments about the dreaded word "breeding!!!" PLEASE!!!

[tidibole]

Congratulations on the pups, I pray u have nothing but success with the placement, the puppies, and future puppy owners!!! Please do not allow a few bad post for you not to pass the word of how helpful this forum can be for dobie owners seeking sound free advice. Now Please folks lets not allow this forum to take shape of other forums about breeders. There are no such things as breeding gods! I read this forum daily to continue to get good info and wonderful stories from fellow doberman lover not to feel uncomfortable about breeders bickering. "I do thyroid, I do AKC, I do working, I do Euro, I do confirmation, I do agility..." I am a beginner and plainly see that there is a problem but even more obvious, there is a better way to address ones feelings than a page long reply to why YOU (more finger pointing) should be placed in front of the firing squad for thinking of breeding. There is always someone better than thou so should that better person look down upon the other person? Too much finger pointing when a person comments about the dreaded word "breeding!!!" PLEASE!!!I am really not sure what to think of your post, and true there are no Breeding God or police, but lets get realistic and look out for the breed and not the immediate monetary value achieved by someone. If it wasn't for the dedication and responsibility of the breeders of yesteryear that sacrificed their time and efforts to produce the dog we know today, where would be be??. The finger NEEDS to be pointed at those that ARE NOT upholding the ethics and quality of the breed. Decades of GOOD breeding can be destroyed by a litter of poor breeding. So if you are new, then sit back and absorb the knowledge that is going to come your way..IT is not JUST BREEDING but rather RESPONSIBLE BREEDING....

[Dobs4ever]

I am truly sorry that everyone felt that I turned this ugly. But the post regarding AKC papers is a prime example of what happens to people who do not strive to reach a gold standard. The reason people get CKC papers is becasue they can't get AKC papers and then the problem is passed on to someone else just like in this example.


In fact in one post it was stated I am dealing with what I have - what does that mean??? Someone gets taken and so it is then ok to pass the problem on. I hope not.
I do feel protective of our group and I feel a deep responsibility to keep someone else from being snookered in and taken just like in this example. So if caring about our Dobermans and caring about the good people on this list and standing up for principles and what I believe in are wrong then I stand proudly on the side of right even though I am considered wrong.

I did not condemn or call anyone names. I aksed questions based on things that were posted. - I did notice that the questions were not answered. But I hope everyone learned that the buyer beware and do your research. And no one more than me would wish that these poor puppies get good homes as with every Doberman bred by anyone because it is not their fault. They are the innocents that will sometimes pay the price for our foolishness. Just look at all the sad examples that end up in rescue - starved, in poor health, afraid and unwanted.

[tidibole]

I am truly sorry that everyone felt that I turned this ugly. But the post regarding AKC papers is a prime example of what happens to people who do not strive to reach a gold standard. The reason people get CKC papers is becasue they can't get AKC papers and then the problem is passed on to someone else just like in this example.


In fact in one post it was stated I am dealing with what I have - what does that mean??? Someone gets taken and so it is then ok to pass the problem on. I hope not.
I do feel protective of our group and I feel a deep responsibility to keep someone else from being snookered in and taken just like in this example. So if caring about our Dobermans and caring about the good people on this list and standing up for principles and what I believe in are wrong then I stand proudly on the side of right even though I am considered wrong.

I did not condemn or call anyone names. I aksed questions based on things that were posted. - I did notice that the questions were not answered. But I hope everyone learned that the buyer beware and do your research. And no one more than me would wish that these poor puppies get good homes as with every Doberman bred by anyone because it is not their fault. They are the innocents that will sometimes pay the price for our foolishness. Just look at all the sad examples that end up in rescue - starved, in poor health, afraid and unwanted.Even though this is an educational forum and should be fun to communicate with others it is not a place to openly advertise less than ethical breeding practices and IF one should want to enter than REALM, then be prepared. I think there has been a tremendous amount of patience expressed concerning these issues not to mention the education value as well. I for one thought I was familiar with most of the CRAPPY registries and I just learned of another. So education certainly has not been lost on me. I don't feel your post was NASTY but I can see the concern and the responsibilty you make to breeding, we all make mistakes but there is no excuse for the continuance and blatant disregard to the betterment of the breed and the contribution by less than ethical responsible breeders to the ever growing rescue population.

[teehayes1]

I am new to this forum, new to the Internet blogging but not new to pet ownership, dogs, or more importantly what I am trying to stress, how to handle conflicts of interest with life issues!!!! Lets not get that misunderstood with me being a doberman "breeder" cause I am not and never claimed to be! You can throw your breeder lingo, love and passion around like a crazy caged animal but at the end of the day is gets you nowhere. All I am attempting to say is that there is a tactful way to explain your stance and berating or bashing a persons post is not one of them!!! Yes, the first or one hundred time berating a post was done, it may have been adequate but at this point, we should all know that it does not work!!! You make yourself look foolish in so many peoples eyes. I have 15 emails from folks on here to prove that every time it makes forum members draw back from posting comments in fright that the firing squad might draw guns on them. Honestly... The few that go above and beyond to bash do no realize that there are dozens who feel as you feel but recognize that its a time and place for it and this forum will suffer EXACTLY as others forums are suffering right now if it continues the direction its going when the word breeding is mentioned.

[tidibole]

I am new to this forum, new to the Internet blogging but not new to pet ownership, dogs, or more importantly what I am trying to stress, how to handle conflicts of interest with life issues!!!! Lets not get that misunderstood with me being a doberman "breeder" cause I am not and never claimed to be! You can throw your breeder lingo, love and passion around like a crazy caged animal but at the end of the day is gets you nowhere. All I am attempting to say is that there is a tactful way to explain your stance and berating or bashing a persons post is not one of them!!! Yes, the first or one hundred time berating a post was done, it may have been adequate but at this point, we should all know that it does not work!!! You make yourself look foolish in so many peoples eyes. I have 15 emails from folks on here to prove that every time it makes forum members draw back from posting comments in fright that the firing squad might draw guns on them. Honestly... The few that go above and beyond to bash do no realize that there are dozens who feel as you feel but recognize that its a time and place for it and this forum will suffer EXACTLY as others forums are suffering right now if it continues the direction its going when the word breeding is mentioned.
I am so sorry that you consider asking questions and expecting answers even if they are not what one wants to hear..Berating..And as far as breeder lingo, etc, and randomly tossing it around, please, until you understand the effects of poor breeding not only to the breed itself but also to rescues, shelters, etc don't attempt to berate me. This is not called bashing..Frightening that perhaps 15 members? feel it comfortable to correspoind with you..Very interesting and I do wish you the best of luck educating them to the issues. The key word in yur post is PET ownership, pets should not be bred, they should remain pets! And truly if so many ,memebers are disatisfied with the posts perhaps rather than notifying you, the moderator is more appropriate.

[Dobs4ever]

Teehayes1 - May I ask you a question??? You state you read this form to get good info so if bad info is presentated how would you address it so someone with less knowledge gets correct info and does not get taken???

There are not breeding gods for sure but there are people will tremendous knowledge on genetics, pedigrees, whelping, producing, showing, training etc. They have paid their dues and that is why they can give help to new people who want it. It appears you feel that knowledge is useful so would you prefer we allow misinformation to stand without pointing out errors and trying to educate.??

If you know a better way to make sure no one on this list get taken in by trash breeding programs please share it with me. I am very open and willing to work on technique.

But I could not sleep at night if someone on this list bought a puppy and then later tells the horror stories of vet bills, breeder won't respond, and mirage of others problems that can arise from poor breeding. I would feel responsible because I did not try to help share knowledge that has been handed down to me from those far more knowledgable than myself.

I only care about one thing the Dobermans - Should I worry about any of these puppies biting someone and getting Dobermans banned in their area and then they ban your Doberman for somoene else's stupidity? It puts all Dobermans at risk.

Congratulations on the pups, I pray u have nothing but success with the placement, the puppies, and future puppy owners!!! Please do not allow a few bad post for you not to pass the word of how helpful this forum can be for dobie owners seeking sound free advice. Now Please folks lets not allow this forum to take shape of other forums about breeders. There are no such things as breeding gods! I read this forum daily to continue to get good info and wonderful stories from fellow doberman lover not to feel uncomfortable about breeders bickering. "I do thyroid, I do AKC, I do working, I do Euro, I do confirmation, I do agility..." I am a beginner and plainly see that there is a problem but even more obvious, there is a better way to address ones feelings than a page long reply to why YOU (more finger pointing) should be placed in front of the firing squad for thinking of breeding. There is always someone better than thou so should that better person look down upon the other person? Too much finger pointing when a person comments about the dreaded word "breeding!!!" PLEASE!!!

[teehayes1]

I am so sorry that you consider asking questions and expecting answers even if they are not what one wants to hear..Berating..And as far as breeder lingo, etc, and randomly tossing it around, please, until you understand the effects of poor breeding not only to the breed itself but also to rescues, shelters, etc don't attempt to berate me. This is not called bashing..Frightening that perhaps 15 members? feel it comfortable to correspoind with you..Very interesting and I do wish you the best of luck educating them to the issues. The key word in yur post is PET ownership, pets should not be bred, they should remain pets! And truly if so many ,memebers are disatisfied with the posts perhaps rather than notifying you, the moderator is more appropriate.


OK so now my level of understanding is up for question just as all that do not speak as thou??? My education level and understanding of life will not allow me to berate another individual when commenting about our love for our pets. I wish other saw it in the same fashion. It may be frightening that 15 members have communicated with me because folks do not want to communicate with hag nags! Have a great day!!!

[teehayes1]

Listen folks... I understand the stance of a loyal doberman lover on issues of unethical breeding practices!!! Stress the effects on the breed when irresponsible breeding occurs to someone else because I have rescued before, so questioning my education and knowledge is a waste of time. My only issues is that when u comment on a persons breeding practices publicly, what u get is a conflicting feedback!!! You have that person defensive and it becomes a fight. We all stated that we are hire for a common reason and a fight is not why I am here!!! We all want to champion this cause and I know that education is the way. Send that person a PM and bring your knowledge to light in a private manner. If that does not work and that particular foolish breeder is truly a unethical breeder (and not just a question mark in the eyes of a person that does more) in all ways, then address it then. But that poor breeder did not have a chance, from the first time I read that post, I knew the claws and fangs of some members would come out in a matter of minutes.

Now for the record, if my intentions are misunderstood then lets iron them out. My only attempt is to attempt to keep the discomfort of reading post of breeding practices to a minimum as much as possible. I am truly not trying to be the pro-byb council in this situation but gee wiz, can we not have claws out when a litter touches the ground? As educated as some are about the breed, sometimes a post can be over the line. And I will never be a moderator... Haaaaaaaaa

[Dobs4ever]

Teehayes1 - I did not see where anyone questioned your level of understanding as per your post - quote "I am a beginner and plainly see that there is a problem but even more obvious, there is a better way to address ones feelings than a page long reply to why YOU (more finger pointing) should be placed in front of the firing squad for thinking of breeding.?" You gave us your level as a beginner- All I asked was do you have a better way to present correct material it or should we just let misinformation slide???

I told you I am open to a better way to share if you can tell me. But often if you are pointing out misinforamation for those who dod not want to learn they go into defensive mode and immediately start to come up with lame duck excuses and personal attacks on the person who tries to help.

If I have posted any misinformation I would surely want it corrected immediatley by someone - anyone!!! There are no dumb questions and people seeking help need to ask them so people can respond and give them the info that they are seeking. Those people can be helped becasue they want to learn. I am not getting this feeling on this thread as it seems the story continues to unfold and becomes even more bizzare with each posting. So how do we help and how do we protect those innocents who might be drawn in unsuspectingly. I am dead serious on this. Posting questions and asking for help is one thing and we need to help anyone and everyone.

I have stated before I don't care where someone is today but where they want to go through learning and education. That person does not try to defend a mistake but says ok I understand and now will take appropriate steps to move forward. It is through this sharing of ideas that we all learn.

I am going to start a new thread on how to present info or how would everyone want it presented if it is wrong or do you prefer that we just keep quiet on it and let the buyer beware.

[tidibole]

Listen folks... I understand the stance of a loyal doberman lover on issues of unethical breeding practices!!! Stress the effects on the breed when irresponsible breeding occurs to someone else because I have rescued before, so questioning my education and knowledge is a waste of time. My only issues is that when u comment on a persons breeding practices publicly, what u get is a conflicting feedback!!! You have that person defensive and it becomes a fight. We all stated that we are hire for a common reason and a fight is not why I am here!!! We all want to champion this cause and I know that education is the way. Send that person a PM and bring your knowledge to light in a private manner. If that does not work and that particular foolish breeder is truly a unethical breeder (and not just a question mark in the eyes of a person that does more) in all ways, then address it then. But that poor breeder did not have a chance, from the first time I read that post, I knew the claws and fangs of some members would come out in a matter of minutes.

Now for the record, if my intentions are misunderstood then lets iron them out. My only attempt is to attempt to keep the discomfort of reading post of breeding practices to a minimum as much as possible. I am truly not trying to be the pro-byb council in this situation but gee wiz, can we not have claws out when a litter touches the ground? As educated as some are about the breed, sometimes a post can be over the line. And I will never be a moderator... HaaaaaaaaaYou are apparenty not reading her posts in their enitrety. She had the chance and even PM'd me but I cannot understand why given the nature of this thread she continues to pour fuel on the fire. Dogs don't need anyone to help them breed BUT they do need someone responsible to promote a sensible breeding. Getting dogs in the method that she is apparently reciving them and attempting to obtain papers? leaves alot to be desired. I personally apologize if you felt I was questionng your knowledge but there is a big difference between RESCUE and Breeding, and yes Breeder Lingo is perinent in both. This is educational isn't it. Perhaps if Big/Small had know what Limited Reg was, she wouldn't be in the situation, hmmm, some more Breeder Lingo...You a moderator,were you asked? did you read what I said, "why didn't the people go to the moderator raher than to an admitted new Internet user?

[tidibole]

It really is not a question of the litter on the ground but rather the many that may be forthcoming Without any viable health testing, without pedigree to determine what kind of breeding took place. This is apparently a very stressful thread for you, so since you do not breed, there is a RESCUE link.

[teehayes1]

It really is not a question of the litter on the ground but rather the many that may be forthcoming Without any viable health testing, without pedigree to determine what kind of breeding took place. This is apparently a very stressful thread for you, so since you do not breed, there is a RESCUE link.


I am certainly glad that the entire purpose of this thread has now turned into the attempt to belittle my comments. Now u do not understand what I am attempting to express in such a manner that each comment made is up for review. This is not a rant on who is sharper, this is a doberman forum and lets continue that direction. If you want to continue to take my wording and tangle it up in your spider web, feel free. I do not play reindeer games.

I have been thanked by members and have heard positive feedback.

[Dobs4ever]

Teehayes1 - First we did not question our level of knowledge you told us you were a beginner and I did not question your statement in any way.

The post was direct information based on a public post by the individual who opened up the discussion on her practices. It appeared that a lot of info was needed for the person to have some correct information as she states she did not know after 16 years of study. It was publically posted that she did not know about AKC reg and quality breeding so information was shared.

I did not call her names nor did I have claws out. I felt the info posted would be good info for any new person to read and hopefully gain from. It was publically posted that there were things she did not know so if Ms CKC wants to use the info and make changes then the info helped. If not then we did our best, but hopefully guided someone else in the right direction or at least save them from falling into the same trap.

Do you feel breeders should follow a higher standard than JQP??? I do which automatically make us open to criticism it comes with the territory.

I find it interesting that you felt it was an attack and not a sharing of info.
Anything that I post publically is open for discussion. I do not fear it. I want criticism as it is how I learn and make adjustments to get better at what is my passion - protecting our Dobermans.

This is a discussion group. How do we learn if everyone just buries their head in the sand and say all is well??? Goody Goody???

I hope eveyone will visit the thread on how to politely point out misinfo as that is important. Let us hear from you so we can all get better and share openly our info. I have never gone after anyone with claws out who was seeking info.

Listen folks... I understand the stance of a loyal doberman lover on issues of unethical breeding practices!!! Stress the effects on the breed when irresponsible breeding occurs to someone else because I have rescued before, so questioning my education and knowledge is a waste of time. My only issues is that when u comment on a persons breeding practices publicly, what u get is a conflicting feedback!!! You have that person defensive and it becomes a fight. We all stated that we are hire for a common reason and a fight is not why I am here!!! We all want to champion this cause and I know that education is the way. Send that person a PM and bring your knowledge to light in a private manner. If that does not work and that particular foolish breeder is truly a unethical breeder (and not just a question mark in the eyes of a person that does more) in all ways, then address it then. But that poor breeder did not have a chance, from the first time I read that post, I knew the claws and fangs of some members would come out in a matter of minutes.

Now for the record, if my intentions are misunderstood then lets iron them out. My only attempt is to attempt to keep the discomfort of reading post of breeding practices to a minimum as much as possible. I am truly not trying to be the pro-byb council in this situation but gee wiz, can we not have claws out when a litter touches the ground? As educated as some are about the breed, sometimes a post can be over the line. And I will never be a moderator... Haaaaaaaaa

[magtie]

We've decided that this thread has moved from an educational discussion and is no longer on topic