how do I get Dob the proper papers?

[bigandsmallpets]

Hey now I have a question maybe someone can help me figure out.
I have an AKC dobe she is 6 months old but no papers the person I got her from wouldn't give me any information. They said that her mom and dad are both AKC but they didn't have the dads info so wouldn't give me the mom's info either. What can I do to get her papered?

[magtie]

i moved your post to it's own thread :)

[jelly8bean]

Have you got any information at all? You can't register without both parents info, and if the breeder wouldn't provide it, I suspect it may not exist. I would contact the AKC if someone has "lost" papers, but you may not be able to get anywhere if the source is not correct. Typically a good breeder registers the litter as soon as they are born. It may take a while for the AKC to process, but not a big deal so I would question a sale without papers. If your contract specified that this is a registered dog then you may have some grounds to really pursue the person who sold you the pup.

[bigandsmallpets]

Have you got any information at all? You can't register without both parents info, and if the breeder wouldn't provide it, I suspect it may not exist. I would contact the AKC if someone has "lost" papers, but you may not be able to get anywhere if the source is not correct. Typically a good breeder registers the litter as soon as they are born. It may take a while for the AKC to process, but not a big deal so I would question a sale without papers. If your contract specified that this is a registered dog then you may have some grounds to really pursue the person who sold you the pup.
See when I bought the female they were saling a litter of doberman pups as mom AKC and but not in hand. Since then I have tried everything to get her to call me back or at least give me some kind of information. I think what happened was the male was bought as a pet from a breeder who stated that the dog had to be fixed. I am just guessing but you know in these small towns people talk. So is there anyway AKC can do blood work to trace her bloodline back? They were saleing her as Kimbertal bloodlines? :confused:
This si so frustrating

[tidibole]

Hey now I have a question maybe someone can help me figure out.
I have an AKC dobe she is 6 months old but no papers the person I got her from wouldn't give me any information. They said that her mom and dad are both AKC but they didn't have the dads info so wouldn't give me the mom's info either. What can I do to get her papered?YOU CAN"T>>>>>
To the best of my knowledge if you do not have papers and the owner of the puppy chooses not to provide you with them or info, you are out of luck. The breeder and the stud owner must sign papers to register the litter and if for whatever reasson you do not have them, best you can do is CKC...Which points back to the last discussion..And it is pretty much agreed on that they are equal to unregistered. You can alter (spay/neuter) and get a ILP or I believe it is now a PAL...this will entitle you to participate in any AKC event with the exception of conformation.

[tidibole]

See when I bought the female they were saling a litter of doberman pups as mom AKC and but not in hand. Since then I have tried everything to get her to call me back or at least give me some kind of information. I think what happened was the male was bought as a pet from a breeder who stated that the dog had to be fixed. I am just guessing but you know in these small towns people talk. So is there anyway AKC can do blood work to trace her bloodline back? They were saleing her as Kimbertal bloodlines? :confused:
This si so frustratingEssentially you are referring to LIMITED REGISTRATION which in layman talk means the dog should NEVER have been used for breeding and therefore any puppies sired by him are INELIGIBLE for registration through AKC. It is sad that someone thought they could scam the sustem...and even sadder that you were suckered in!!!

[bigandsmallpets]

YOU CAN"T>>>>>
To the best of my knowledge if you do not have papers and the owner of the puppy chooses not to provide you with them or info, you are out of luck. The breeder and the stud owner must sign papers to register the litter and if for whatever reason you do not have them, best you can do is CKC...Which points back to the last discussion..And it is pretty much agreed on that they are equal to unregistered. You can alter (spay/neuter) and get a ILP or I believe it is now a PAL...this will entitle you to participate in any AKC event with the exception of conformation.
See that was more of what I wanted to know cause she is one heck of a jumper and very obedient. She will do whatever you want her to she learns very fast and trys to please you with ever move. It is just amazing to watch her put on a show. So I was trying to find out if there is anyway to get her into some kind of activities. Yeah I know I am a sucker but it was there loss and my gain cause she is just absolutely one of my favorite dogs

[Sue J]

Bigandsmall: You can always call AKC and explain the situation, but I seriously doubt they can help. It's a bad situation. I just wanted to respond to your pup jumping. IMO, At six months this can be dangerous for her as her bone plates, etc aren't ready for that and won't be for quite some time. Please take great care with her even if she does want to perform. it sounds like you really enjoy her and I know you will want many more years of enjoyment :)

[Rhiannon]

I have been following this thread with a great interest and am saying right up front that this is one of the problems I have with registries such as CKC. I am not demeaning anyone here so please do not think that I am. The problem I see here is this. I am a breeder. I show my dogs AKC and UKC and International. When I breed a litter of puppies I sell my puppies on limited registrations. With the hopes that my buyers will respect the decision I have made. It is very disheartening to me to know that any puppy buyer that gets one of my puppies on a limited registration can take that pedigree to any other registry such as CKC or APRI or ACA and my wishes and contracts or invalidated by them registering that same dog via their registries with full registrations and then voila my puppy is being bred and puppies are being sold against my wishes. Where is the fairness or responsibility in this? Now a breeder has their pedigree or dogs in a situation that we specifically hoped to prevent. Again there is a reason why your puppy does not have papers and should not be given papers. No bloodwork should even allow this to happen. Please do not think this is a personal attack on any one breeder. It is not... I have been in this situation on other forums and never want to see Doberman Hub end up like those other sites.

It is not you bigandsmallpets that I am angry with it is the breeder that sold you the puppy. They obviously knew they were wrong to breed the female to the male but did so anyway. And then proceeded to sell the puppies to people unsuspecting that there were any stipulations on the sire and dam. I would suggest that you contact AKC and request an ILP number for your girl so that you can show her in obedience or agility but not conformation. I suspect that this is why some of the other people have posted some of the comments that they have regarding CKC. So hopefully some good even comes out of your original post because hopefully the nonbreeders will understand why some of the breeders posts become so "passionate".

[Dobs4ever]

You can get an Lp number for her through AKC and show her in obedience, agility etc. But any puppies will not be reg AKC. If a breeder sells a dog on limited registration the breeder is the only one who can change that. They have to jump through hoops to do it but it can be done. This is why it is so important that things be done correctly so innocent people do not get taken in by fast talking con artist and it is why AKC registration is so important. The vast majority of activties require AKC registration. From there you can just about go anywhere. And the reason DNA will not work is at that level of breeding you can bet that DNA identification has not been done on any of the dogs so no way to trace it.

[Dobs4ever]

It is one of the things that plague us in DPCA - that limited registration does not protect your bloodline. That is one reason CKC has made it as a registery but it does not correct the problem from someone who got suckered in and mislead. When top lines are bred to junk it demeans the quality of the pedigree and in some cases has caused some very nice dogs to go unused because they were bred to z factored etc. Breeder value their bloodlines because they have worked hard to prove their worth.

I had this happen to one of Gunner's puppies just alst year. I bred a bitch lst year to Gunner who is DNA tested and on record with AKC (one of my own that belongs to a friend of mine) 9 months later I get an e mail that says he is being promoted and being bred to a bitch in Dobie Den. I nearly fainted. I called my friend and said hey - we agreed all puppies unless shown would go on limited registration and she said they did. She contacted Lisa and told her that none of the puppies would be AKC reg as the dog was sold on limited reg and was not even a year old yet. She immediately took it off her web site and the breeding never happened but had she not jumped the gun and advertised it then we would not have been able to correct the situation.

A breeder MUST earn respect and it is this kind of thing that brings us all down. I will say it again and it is not meant to be mean at all but the truth is quality begats quality and good breeders strive to breed the very best and then stand behind it so innocent people do not get caught like this. Research - find top quality breeders and pick their brain it can save you tons of heartache in the long run.

[tidibole]

It is one of the things that plague us in DPCA - that limited registration does not protect your bloodline. That is one reason CKC has made it as a registery but it does not correct the problem from someone who got suckered in and mislead. When top lines are bred to junk it demeans the quality of the pedigree and in some cases has caused some very nice dogs to go unused because they were bred to z factored etc. Breeder value their bloodlines because they have worked hard to prove their worth.

I had this happen to one of Gunner's puppies just alst year. I bred a bitch lst year to Gunner who is DNA tested and on record with AKC (one of my own that belongs to a friend of mine) 9 months later I get an e mail that says he is being promoted and being bred to a bitch in Dobie Den. I nearly fainted. I called my friend and said hey - we agreed all puppies unless shown would go on limited registration and she said they did. She contacted Lisa and told her that none of the puppies would be AKC reg as the dog was sold on limited reg and was not even a year old yet. She immediately took it off her web site and the breeding never happened but had she not jumped the gun and advertised it then we would not have been able to correct the situation.

A breeder MUST earn respect and it is this kind of thing that brings us all down. I will say it again and it is not meant to be mean at all but the truth is quality begats quality and good breeders strive to breed the very best and then stand behind it so innocent people do not get caught like this. Research - find top quality breeders and pick their brain it can save you tons of heartache in the long run.
My "passion" stems from a similar incident. A prominent breeder placed a dog on Full reg without the benefit of a contratct and the original purchaser sold to a local breeder for $500.00 who only had CKC reg'd bitches. This beautiful dog with an impecable bloodline is now dual registered CKC and reduced to being bred to inferior bitches with out health testing of any sort and the puppies advertised on PF for $350.00. And then it is always asked how these "breeders" get such nice dogs? hmmmm...RESPECT? definately earned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Rhiannon]

It is one of the things that plague us in DPCA - that limited registration does not protect your bloodline. That is one reason CKC has made it as a registery but it does not correct the problem from someone who got suckered in and mislead. When top lines are bred to junk it demeans the quality of the pedigree and in some cases has caused some very nice dogs to go unused because they were bred to z factored etc. Breeder value their bloodlines because they have worked hard to prove their worth.

I had this happen to one of Gunner's puppies just alst year. I bred a bitch lst year to Gunner who is DNA tested and on record with AKC (one of my own that belongs to a friend of mine) 9 months later I get an e mail that says he is being promoted and being bred to a bitch in Dobie Den. I nearly fainted. I called my friend and said hey - we agreed all puppies unless shown would go on limited registration and she said they did. She contacted Lisa and told her that none of the puppies would be AKC reg as the dog was sold on limited reg and was not even a year old yet. She immediately took it off her web site and the breeding never happened but had she not jumped the gun and advertised it then we would not have been able to correct the situation.

A breeder MUST earn respect and it is this kind of thing that brings us all down. I will say it again and it is not meant to be mean at all but the truth is quality begats quality and good breeders strive to breed the very best and then stand behind it so innocent people do not get caught like this. Research - find top quality breeders and pick their brain it can save you tons of heartache in the long run.

I had heard this story and was glad that you were able to get this stopped.
That would have been heartbreaking for you I am sure.

[Dobs4ever]

Yes it would have been and especially the circumstances of the breeding situation. It would have been advertised all over the net that GUNNER puppies were available of course, because the boy has done some awesome things. It is like one of my children. I watch closely who he associates with. I don't want that boy run through the mud. He has earned every one of his titles and would do anything I ask of him. I owe him so much and I respect his accomplishments too much to breed him to anything that walks. I have turned down many breedings to him.

People who have nothing to brag about try to slide in on others coat tails because they are not willing to put in the time and effort to learn. I just hope everyone on this list wants to learn. Sometimes we might not like what is being said but we have to swallow our pride for the sake of these magnificant dogs and learn.

I have helped many people who have come to me for guidance and am willing to help anyone who wants to learn and do things right. I don't care where someone starts I only care where they want to go and how they care about these dogs.

[bigandsmallpets]

Okay thank you all so much for the information... But first I must say I am not trying to register her AKC or CKC to breed her she is going to be fixed since I have no clue on her bloodlines I just want to be able to show her. Second I am not trying to get her to jump anything at this point she just does it There is a 6 foot fence around my place that can't hold her in she wants to go play with all the kids. I try to keep her from jumping that high due to the fact that she is only 6 months old but...... what do you do? Okay I also have another female that is registered with the

World Wide Kennel Club, Ltd.
P.O. BOX 62
MOUNT VERNON NY 10552
Tel: (914) 771-5219
Fax: (914) 961-7789
E-Mail: wwkc1com@aol.com
Website: www.worldwidekennel.qpg.com
Does anyone know anything about this place?

[Rhiannon]

Okay thank you all so much for the information... But first I must say I am not trying to register her AKC or CKC to breed her she is going to be fixed since I have no clue on her bloodlines I just want to be able to show her. Second I am not trying to get her to jump anything at this point she just does it There is a 6 foot fence around my place that can't hold her in she wants to go play with all the kids. I try to keep her from jumping that high due to the fact that she is only 6 months old but...... what do you do? Okay I also have another female that is registered with the

World Wide Kennel Club, Ltd.
P.O. BOX 62
MOUNT VERNON NY 10552
Tel: (914) 771-5219
Fax: (914) 961-7789
E-Mail: wwkc1com@aol.com
Website: www.worldwidekennel.qpg.com
Does anyone know anything about this place?

As per Wikipedia definition I have copied and pasted for informational purposes.

World Wide Kennel Club
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is an orphan, as few or no other articles link to it. Please introduce links to this page from other articles related to it. (February 2009)

World Wide Kennel Club is an organization dedicated to supporting dog breeds and their owners. Originally formed in Europe in 1961, relocating to the United States and becoming incorporated as the World Wide Kennel Club, Ltd. in 1984. There are currently no statistics on numbers of dogs registered.


They have full and limited registration similar to the American Kennel Club where if limited registered a dog's litters won't be registered without the limited registration first being lifted.


However they do not advocate any health screenings or tests, hold only a few shows through other clubs and do not maintain any breed standards. They also do not have a list of accepted breeds, instead stating they will register all accepted breeds from any other registry (including 'new' and 'rare' breeds) without verification of pedigree.


This is why the WWKC is often considered one of the "paper mills for puppy mills".


[edit] External links
World Wide Kennel Club



This dog-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Kennel_Club"
Categories: Kennel clubs | Dog stubs
Hidden categories: Orphaned articles from February 2009 | All orphaned articles

[tidibole]

As per Wikipedia definition I have copied and pasted for informational purposes.

World Wide Kennel Club
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is an orphan, as few or no other articles link to it. Please introduce links to this page from other articles related to it. (February 2009)

World Wide Kennel Club is an organization dedicated to supporting dog breeds and their owners. Originally formed in Europe in 1961, relocating to the United States and becoming incorporated as the World Wide Kennel Club, Ltd. in 1984. There are currently no statistics on numbers of dogs registered.


They have full and limited registration similar to the American Kennel Club where if limited registered a dog's litters won't be registered without the limited registration first being lifted.


However they do not advocate any health screenings or tests, hold only a few shows through other clubs and do not maintain any breed standards. They also do not have a list of accepted breeds, instead stating they will register all accepted breeds from any other registry (including 'new' and 'rare' breeds) without verification of pedigree.


This is why the WWKC is often considered one of the "paper mills for puppy mills".


[edit] External links
World Wide Kennel Club



This dog-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Kennel_Club"
Categories: Kennel clubs | Dog stubs
Hidden categories: Orphaned articles from February 2009 | All orphaned articlesThank you for taking the time to look up this issue and posting it. I certainly have learned and added a new registry to my list of less then reputable organizations. Big/ Little, perhaps you should have taken the time to educate yourself on this matter as well.

[tidibole]

Okay thank you all so much for the information... But first I must say I am not trying to register her AKC or CKC to breed her she is going to be fixed since I have no clue on her bloodlines I just want to be able to show her. Second I am not trying to get her to jump anything at this point she just does it There is a 6 foot fence around my place that can't hold her in she wants to go play with all the kids. I try to keep her from jumping that high due to the fact that she is only 6 months old but...... what do you do? Okay I also have another female that is registered with the

World Wide Kennel Club, Ltd.
P.O. BOX 62
MOUNT VERNON NY 10552
Tel: (914) 771-5219
Fax: (914) 961-7789
E-Mail: wwkc1com@aol.com
Website: www.worldwidekennel.qpg.com
Does anyone know anything about this place?

I am not trying to be nasty but I thoroughly feel it is time to take the bull by the horns. and put this thread in perspective. WHY do you need to know her bloodlines? Before she is spayed? Show her in what? She is 6 months old, there is training and evaluation that can and should be done? In what activity? You were told of the ILP/PAL nothing is required of that other than 3 photos and a certificate to prove altering FROM A VET>>> Is it perhaps in the event her bloodlines are good then you can register her with CKC or one of the other paper registries? and forget the altering? There are MANY dogs in rescue that have no history of bloodlines or pedigrees and make excellent pets. I can speak from expereince as I have had many and have sucessfully pursued AKC activities with them. How can you possibly have studied Dobermans for 16 years and not have learned a thng about registries? Ironically, you come on here posting photos of your CKC litter, stir up a little sympathy, then immediately rebound with an dobe of supposed AKC lineage but golly, gee whiz no papers available because obviously this dog was bred by an unehtical breeder, but you were there to take it. Then to top it off you question whether DNA would be applicable? Why?? to make matters worse yet you come up with a lame request on the WWKC. Since posted all of the pertinent information then I would suggest you UTILIZE their website rather than asking people on this forum. I think it is perfectly clear that this thread is not going to condone you breeding practices or rather lack of. Had it ever occurred to you that perhaps you should have evaluated this registry prior to acquiring this dog given your vast 16 years of study? It appears as if you get whatever dogs are available with no prior regard to registry and condoning that fact because you know any dog can be registered CKC, so there is no loss to you. and then continue your merry way. I for one am through. You have no intention of changing your breeding practices and any sympathy or hopes to re educate that may have come your way via myself is certailnly withdrawn. If you took the photos of those puppies then I would suggest that you channel your energy into photography as they are very nice pics and leave the breeding to people with ethics and responsibility and above all knowledge. My friend has a philosphy, 3 strikes and your out, guess what you struck out!

[tidibole]

Have you got any information at all? You can't register without both parents info, and if the breeder wouldn't provide it, I suspect it may not exist. I would contact the AKC if someone has "lost" papers, but you may not be able to get anywhere if the source is not correct. Typically a good breeder registers the litter as soon as they are born. It may take a while for the AKC to process, but not a big deal so I would question a sale without papers. If your contract specified that this is a registered dog then you may have some grounds to really pursue the person who sold you the pup.It take approx 7-10 days via mail and less time with a pin number online..You are correct if there are no papers at time of purchase, I wouldn't hold my breath, they are not forthcoming for any number of reasons? I have to ask, would anyone buy a car without a title in hand? not trying to compare a dog to a car but lets get real the legality of the paperwork is very similar!!i

[tidibole]

See when I bought the female they were saling a litter of doberman pups as mom AKC and but not in hand. Since then I have tried everything to get her to call me back or at least give me some kind of information. I think what happened was the male was bought as a pet from a breeder who stated that the dog had to be fixed. I am just guessing but you know in these small towns people talk. So is there anyway AKC can do blood work to trace her bloodline back? They were saleing her as Kimbertal bloodlines? :confused:
This si so frustratingI wasn't aware that Kimbertal utilized Limited Registration, but then I a cannot swear to that, if anyone can clarify I would be appreciative.

[Dobs4ever]

Did I miss something here??? That is exactly the point - you can't show an unregistered dog. If you are honestly going to spay her then you can't show even if she was registered in conformation. So may I please ask - do you know the bloodlines of your CKC dogs???

Dogs who jump fences are not trained and are bored so she is trying to escape from your yard to find more interesting stuff to do. I have a 18" fence that I put up sometimes for emergency and even though Gunner is fully trained to jump and retreive he will stay in it all day becasue he has been taught to respect boundaries. Do you read what you write?

Okay thank you all so much for the information... But first I must say I am not trying to register her AKC or CKC to breed her she is going to be fixed since I have no clue on her bloodlines I just want to be able to show her. Second I am not trying to get her to jump anything at this point she just does it There is a 6 foot fence around my place that can't hold her in she wants to go play with all the kids. I try to keep her from jumping that high due to the fact that she is only 6 months old but...... what do you do? Okay I also have another female that is registered with the

World Wide Kennel Club, Ltd.
P.O. BOX 62
MOUNT VERNON NY 10552
Tel: (914) 771-5219
Fax: (914) 961-7789
E-Mail: wwkc1com@aol.com
Website: www.worldwidekennel.qpg.com
Does anyone know anything about this place?

[Sue J]

she is one heck of a jumper and very obedient. She will do whatever you want her to she learns very fast and trys to please you with ever move. It is just amazing to watch her put on a show.

Sorry I must have misread the meaning on this. I didn't realize you meant she was jumping the fence.

[bigandsmallpets]

Yes Dobs4ever I do know the bloodlines from my CKC dogs. Or atleast what is on the peprwork anyway. But as you guys have pointed out that may as well be trashed so I don't know anymore. LOL. DaSoda the fence jumper is a lot of work she has gotten into way more than what the other 2 have . I have never had a problem keeping them in with no fence. No Dasoda has no formal training at all but we checking into Man's best friend for her.

[tidibole]

Pretty risky asking a dog to stay contained with NO FENCE, especially a curious baby, but good luck anyway.