Submissive dog, smart but mentally shuts down at times, help?advice?

[DRLittlechickbigdiesel]

my 8 1/2 month old blue pup DR late nite brandy run aka Brandi is so submissive! she was kind of a rescue, she was a pup when i got her, shes not anything special but i liked her. heres the problem and i dont know or dont think there is a solutions but might as well try. when shes excited or if you scold her, she mentally shuts down! she just starts whining and rolling and sometimes peeing. she will grab something she knows she shouldnt and i'll tell her no. then drop it. she wont, she knows the command but wont sometimes. when she does, she will immediatly pick it back up over and over and over and over again! she so knows shes not supposed to (brat :D) or i'll ask her to sit, she will, as soon as i go to treat her she lays on her back, so i step back, as soon as shes sitting i go to treat her again, then she lays down and whines again, so i look away and step back. its repetitive. after a very long time she gets the treat, but the next day we are back to the same thing! every time! i train at LEAST a half hour every day. you go to pet her and she rolls over. you tell her to stay and she lays down, she wont stay in a sit. she whines and wiggles everywhere. its so annoying! i could never show her in obedience even though shes smart, i guess this is what back yard breeding gets you. what can i say, she was a pity case more than anything, her brother was the same, i think it may have been on part of the owners, they opened the cage she was in and they both slunk to the ground and cried if you touched them. if another dog came near her she SCREAMED and yelped like they were killing her, which of course excited the boxers and made them wanna play with her more. she would hide all day. do you think there is hope? what can i do? when i first got her i MADE sure to socialize her and my goodness did it help! i took her to a huge festival with my friends 2 dogs and there were over 2000 people there. i have taken her so many places to meet new dogs and she is finally confident to run up to new people and new dogs. took alot of work. im just hoping she will come around or something, if she thinks your mad, and you call her sometimes she will just cry and be severely shy and wont come near you, especially when its cold or raining and you want her inside, you have to stand back from the door so she can go past you. ive never ever ever hit her or yelled at her, just scolded her with a no when she does wrong. and she shreds EVERYTHING! i dont even know what to do

[Dobs4ever]

OUCH!! Probably I will start with babying them because we feel sorry for them so we actually reinforce the behavior we want to overcome. I would first work her on lead so you can have more control of the outcome. What really motivates her??? Is it food??? Is it a toy??? Find her hot button and use it. Work in short time frames. She is on lead you ask for a sit and she starts to go down heel off and bring her along saying Lets go. then stop and ask for the sit. If she starts to go down heel off with her and try again. When you say you then try to go over to her to treat her she goes down. That is why I recommend the leash. You can reward much faster. Have you tried clicker training with her??? When you ask her to drop something and she does you should immediately pick it up and reward her. Why is she having the opportunity to pick it back up? She is confused with the program you are on and she needs very clear signals.

Once you have control with the leash you should be able to reward faster or heel off and not let her go into avoidance. Hope this make sense. Keep us posted. We want to help. It is just harder not being there.

[Sue J]

I'm wondering and this is just a guess, but when you say you go to treat her you have to "step back" and you have to "step back" to let her in the door. Are you treating in a face to face position that may be too close in her space/face? Will she come to get the treat if you weren't as close to her?

[Dobs4ever]

Sue that is a good point and your observation is correct but I feel this dog has not been socialized as a puppy before going to its new home. The puppy obviously had little contact with people so is not comfortable with people being in its space period. That is why I like the leash. I would even go so far as to hook th eleash on my belt or something inside and keep the dog close to me at all times. This gets to dog comfortable being close. Massage the dog - not pet the dog and don't talk to the dog when doing this. The massage will make the dog understand that being close to you and you touching it is a great thing.

[tidibole]

Having beem involved in rescue for a long time. I agree with Dobes however, I would merely put a collar and leash on her, when she shuts down, pull her back into the original position and reward that behavior. If she continues to lay and roll, proceed to walk and make her get up and continue on with much priase. But as I have mentioned, I believe in rewarding good behavior and consequences for undesired behavior. I have dealt with dogs of this nature, many can "play the game" without you being aware.

[dobeshowgirl]

Hey Girl :-)

Just wanted to say if you would like some help with your girl, I am right down the road :-) Feel free to give me a call anytime and we can work with her.

[DRLittlechickbigdiesel]

ok thanks guys, the thing with the toy, i tell all my dogs to drop and then leave it, i do pick it up if im simply teaching them to drop it. but if shes has something, she will run with it of course, whether im chasing her or not, so i will call out the drop it command, she will, and i will head towards the item, and she will pick it back up and run like mad! she knows she shouldnt. she hadnt been socialized, but when i got her i changed that, she recently met a new dog, the other dog was kinda stand off ish like she used to be, but she went right up to the dog and owner and was super happy to see new people, a LONG way from where she used to be!!!! she used to bark and cower at the sight of new dogs. thanks dobes for the advice on the laying down, and thanks to sue too, it is when she is off leash and face to face that she will constantly lay down when i go to treat her. big break through today, the new dog bailey kinda picks on her if she cowers all the time, she wouldnt come inside cause i was right by the door, vince came in, bailey of course came in (doesnt miss a meal!) and brandi whined and rolled and threw a fit, bailey came back out, barked sharply at her and brandi got right up and came inside, so i gave her treats and loved on all of them. for the First time i was able to get all 3 to sit calmly without anyone laying down, without anyone moving, all 3 sat and watched me, i said stay, walked out the door, put their food down and then called them, told them to sit one more time and then told them to eat and brandi obeyed wonderfully! i wonder if having the dominant female around gives her more confidence? she hasnt cowered at my feet at all lately when i come in, she sits down like a good girl

[Sue J]

Yeh Brandi girl!! Glad to hear she's progressing. You also sound relieved.

[DRLittlechickbigdiesel]

i definitely am. i went to feed today and had some one on one time with the dobes, bailey of course was frickin amazing, cause she just is. and vince my male was very excited and for some reason very in tune to what i was asking, he watched me the whole time, normally he ignores me. i told brandi to sit, told her to stay and went to put her food down, she laid down, i sat her back up, tried again, she laid back down, we repeated this about 8 times, she finally sat up on her own, stayed sitting up and waited till i released her to come for her food. i guess patience really is the key with this ding bat. hahahaha. i am really appreciative of all the information and advice you guys provided! its really helping. i hope she keeps getting better!!! yay

[jelly8bean]

Yes... patience is everything. My Sara is 9 now and had (still has some) shut down issues. She stresses herself unmercifully. Not in the way yours is doing with the belly up, but just shutting down. It is always a work in progress and you are doing all the right things and it will just take time. Sara can deal with all sorts of new things now, but when I had her in a class where she was exposed to some agility things.. oops, shutdown again, it was just too new. She so wants to be right, but she does want her own way as well. Reward what you want, don't reward what you don't want. Good on you for taking her in and taking your time with her. :)

[DRLittlechickbigdiesel]

thanks! i love her, shes too sweet, loves everyone. she deserved a chance and im not giving up on her. she had a bit of a brain shut down today when i called them in for food. but she sat instead of laying down today. one step forward, two steps back. baby steps but we're getting there. and man when i saw her in that cage with her brother, saw how the man treated them, i couldnt pass her up, i didnt care how much she cost or how ugly her conformation was(she looks like early german dobes with the "dolphin head" and the akward body.) she needed a home and i only wish i coulda saved her brother too