Pulling ?

[Sue J]

When Jett pulls, our trainer has us immediately stop "be a tree" and put her in a sit until we're ready to move again. Jett is responding to fairly well to this technique so far. On another thread Dobs4ever described the turn for pulling, which is what I was taught in a class I took several years ago and like better than stopping. I'm wondering what are the pros & cons of both techniques? Also if we started one way, then switch will it be too confusing for Jett.

[tidibole]

When Jett pulls, our trainer has us immediately stop "be a tree" and put her in a sit until we're ready to move again. Jett is responding to fairly well to this technique so far. On another thread Dobs4ever described the turn for pulling, which is what I was taught in a class I took several years ago and like better than stopping. I'm wondering what are the pros & cons of both techniques? Also if we started one way, then switch will it be too confusing for Jett.I personally do not like the stopping. That is like a time-out with a child. As mentioned, the Pivot, is to me, far superior. It allows the dog to correct himself, ultimately thinking "hmmm, should have been paying attention" and it does work. I had the opportunity of watching Dobes4 do her thing in that respect and it does work. I think there is entirely too much of positive training, without the benefit of consequences when behavior is not acceptable. As I have mentioned more than once, I live with 3 entire males, 2 dobes (3 1/2 & 2) and a Weim (4yrs ), and let me assure they they know their boundries and rarely attempt to test them. I am a thorough believer in consequences, in any shape, form or way. That dosen't mean that I don't reward with priase, food, whatever it takes but I do not ignore ill behavior until the requested behavior is achieved. Dogs are far more adaptable than many given them credit for, it is not difficult to change procedures.

[Dobs4ever]

Sue - to me the pros and cons are how long you want to put up with the pulling. An immediate quick pivot and marching off quickly in the opposite direction says to the dog "HEY pay attention TO ME, you never know for sure what I will do". The dog learns quickly he should be watching you no taking off in his own direction. I have also been the tree. Think how long and patiently a tree stands there - for ever.

Plus when you stop the dog has nothing to do so is learning nothing IMO> In fact the faster you move the better they like it. Dogs love action. So when I start teaching a dog to heel at 8 weeks I move fast and do lots of talking to the puppy to keep it watching me as we walk. - Just a quck 3 or 4 steps with the puppy watching me and we reward and play. I build time and distance over time til I have a longer heeling time. I try to vary it so the dog never knows for sure what we will be doing. They are just like us......they get bored easily with repeated routines over and over. So I only do an exercise 3 or 4 times then we move on to something else. I would rather do 3 or 4 repetitions good before it starts to fall apart. If we have a fairly good one on #3 we quit and move on to something new. I can always come back and throw in another quick repeat later if I feel I need to imporve something.

If the dog does it right the first time we have a big celebration and move on to something else - How does the dog know when it is right if we keep on drilling??? Does that make sense.
FUN FUN FUN always fun for the dog.

[Rich S]

Magnum is a big time puller. We have tried both techniques mentioned and find turning is really the only thing that works for him (we also use a HALTI).

We find that when Magnum knows he is walking to place where he will be let of leash he pulls more. The only thing that helps in that situation is taking a less familiar route.

[jelly8bean]

I have tried both, and have had both work fine. I believe some of it has to do with your dog. With my Indigo, the stop works great because she looks back at me to figure out what's wrong quickly or comes right back to me for same reason. With my rottie, the turn worked much better because she would just hang on the end of the leash and I was not going to win that tug of war (she is definitely stronger!). So I think alot depends on the dog. I don't think that changing is a big deal since they are both corrections for unwanted behavior. You should be able to discuss with your trainer as well.

[Sue J]

Thanks everyone. I agree that being a tree could last forever, although right now Jett responds to it. She is pulling way less (frequency & duration). I also walk pretty fast with her and we've done figure 8's, different pace, stops, sits, downs and most of the time she pays attention. With my husband...not so much. He saunters which is his normal walking speed, so she gets bored pretty quick with him and of course does her own thing sometimes.

[Big Dogs]

Sue just remember one thing when you are walking with jett you dictate the pace and vary it some times slow and other times faster it helps her keep attention. I prefer to do the tree thing in the beginning but will do turns and inside circles if they start to creep ahead. When jett is walking and sits is she turned with he butt away from you at all. This is usually a good indication she is to far ahead. And walking slow with jett is good in the beginning as it can keep her calmer and allows you to make your corrections at the perfect time.

[Sue J]

Although I have a tendency to walk fairly fast, I do vary the pace with her and slow down at times. I've even tried the wedding march, which she doesn't particularly like. Most of the time when we stop and she sits, she's beside me. Thanks for the tip about her butt being away from me. I'll watch for that. What I have noticed is she doesn't "creep" ahead, she takes off and tries to go (everything is full blast with her, LOL). It usually takes a time or two before she gets it that I won't walk if she takes off and she settles down and stays close to me.

[Big Dogs]

Sue I tend to see the dobes jump at the initial start for some reason more than others don't worry she will get it! If she likes to take a big surge after she's been in a sit command take one step and turn to your right and be ready to correct this will get her attention fairly quickly. Oh another thing is always remember to start from the sit position with your left foot as latter in jett's training when she sees you leave with your right she will know to stay put it's easier to practice it in the beginning than latter on.

[Sue J]

Trainer brought a better harness yesterday, no pulling. It was wonderful :) :) Jett even acted like she she enjoyed class better. I remembered the left foot heel start from my old class so that's what I always do. Didn't know though about the right foot, we're starting on stay Thursday so that is good to know. Thanks a bunch!