View Full Version : Questions for rescue
Dobs4ever
05-23-2009, 09:45 AM
I have to admit I am not real knowledgeable about rescue and how it works. I have never really had much contact with it at all
So for my education I would like to know from some of you who do rescue the following.
1. Do you usually get reg papers with a dog that is turned into rescue?
If so does rescue try to contact the breeder??
2. Is it easier to place a dog with AKC papers or does it matter since it is rescue?
3. Is it easier to place a dog with cropped ears???
4. Are most of the dogs from unknown backgrounds (BYB) or do you see as many dogs with decent pedigrees from breeders????
5. Do breeders try to work with rescue??? If so how or what can we do to work better with rescue?
I have no clue as I have no experience in this area. Any help is appreciated?
jelly8bean
05-23-2009, 02:14 PM
I work with rescue, but not the intake side. Here is what I know. There are no papers associated nor registration with any dog up for adoption. Even if they were available they would not likely be passed on since they would indicate the prior owner and that is not what rescue is about. I have heard of some rescues that require papers before they accept dogs into the breed rescue, but have never heard of anyone adopting getting those papers.
In my area , the rescue dogs are often pulled from shelters and that means the county government is involved at intake. So they are at breed rescue or the shelter with unknown background. When I looked at two dobie puppies at my local shelter they said they were owned by a couple that did not have the resources to care for them. That was it (both these were adopted with 3 days). They would not care about papers and would again not pass them on.
Nothing is ever said in rescue or shelters about AKC registrations or lack thereof. In my experience the ears make no difference since no one is going to show them. They are adopted for the love of dobermans. Those that want to wait for crops can, but that doesn't move a dog, personality does.
I personally am unaware of any breeders that work with rescues, but I feel sure there are some. Love of dobies is love of dobies and if breeders can help find good homes for some lovebugs due to their general web of knowledge of hopeful dobie owners I think it would be something that a breed rescue would definately work with.
I would say that some rescues can identify dogs as coming from certain breeders, based on the intake information over time. But it is unlikely the rescue would contact the suspected or identified breeder because in most of these cases the breeders are of poor repute anyway, and rescuers would not want a dog to go back to those people.
What is up? Can I help in some way?
tidibole
05-23-2009, 06:51 PM
Unfortunately, I just had a very LIVELY debate regarding this question and papers. I have been involved with rescue for more years than I care to admit both Breed Specific and Non. Although I totally feel that any papers should be given with the dog, I undertand why they are not. However, the reasoning of the the new owner knowing the previous owner is not realistic. RESCUE loves it when paper are surrendered with the dog, this gives them a point of identification as to the breeder and they do utilize that info to the MAX!!!. This knowledge definately benefits rescue in a number of ways. I personally feel if a dog is surrendered with Registration there are ways to eliminate the pertinent information and still give the dog the heritage he is entitled too. Even a pedigree would be helpful in a numbver of ways, as to include potential health issues. Every rescue dog that I have ever adopted, and let me assure you, I have had a fair share, has been ILP'd and used for something in order to maintain the "brain power". I would have loved to have put a sire and dam's name rather than unknown! or better yet an actually birthadtae rather than a random guess. After all, no rescue dog leaves a legitimate rescue without being altered, so honestly, where is the harm!!!!
Dobs4ever
05-23-2009, 07:08 PM
WOW!! Thank Jelly I just had no clue. So papers are useless for rescue and breedres are useless. It is sad that the good breeders have to be lumped in with those that do not care and will not help but I am sure that you see mostly those who would not do anything to help anyway.
I thought vets and animal shelters were reqired to scan for a chip??? Is that not true of rescue as well???
As far as breeders working with rescue I meant more along the lines that when they were contacted they took their own puppies back??? I have only had it happen once and the rescue contacted me and I got hold of the owner to find out what happened and they were so thrilled and went immediatley and picked him up.
jelly8bean
05-24-2009, 07:57 AM
Yes In my area Rescue does scan for chip - it is required. To try to return lost dogs/pets. Our SPCA has been very successful with lost pet returns over the past few years. However, many are not wanted and return is not the idea.
I don't think good breeders are lumped in with bad, because a good breeder screens their potential owner and doesn't sell to anyone off the street. This means alot less likelihood of the dog going to a shelter later. Good breeders tend to keep track of what is happening with their dogs (as I have noticed you do) and do not allow situations to get out of hand typically.
I believe that good breeders are a good resource for rescues because of their knowledge of the breed (thinking of training and attitude issues that sometimes happen) and because they do normally have a pool of potential dobie owners who may find more of a match with a rescue.
And just for more information, alot of dogs come to breed rescue from shelters.. found lost or abandoned for whatever reason. My SPCA is currently heading a big fight with the county animal control because they do allow adoptions without spay/neuter. The county says it is not their responsibility because under law they are only required to control animal nuisance, not control pet population. This has been years in the fighting and we still have not won. So while Breed rescue may be able to make that work, remember that many dogs are still in/from shelters all over the country and the policy is not universally held as the only responsible thing to do.
Dobs4ever
05-25-2009, 09:44 AM
Jelly - thanks so much for your input. The more we learn the more we can help each other. I have a contract that for any reasons all my puppies are to come back to me. Through the years I have taken a few back and rehomed them.
I am shocked that some shelters do not spay/neuter adoptees. I thought that was mandatory for all shelters.
The vast majority of my puppies go on limited registration with a spay - neuter agreement. This saved me big time this past year when one of my puppies from a bitch I bred for a friend of mine was adversited as going to the the sire of a litter of Dobie Den puppies. I nearly died. I called my friend and said what the heck - My stud agreement says pets go on limited registration.
She said he did - she contacted the proposed breeder and informed her that her litter would not be AKC reg and that ended that - then she contacted the owner and told them that they were suppose to neuter the dog. They did once she explained limited registration and did they not read their contract. The dog in question was only 9 months old and they were going to do a breeding. I think not -and certainly not with a Gunner boy puppy. Gunner has very very few puppies out there to begin with but certainly far far less with full registration and only to a show or working home.
Gunner has given me 100% all the time and he deserves far better than to have a bunch of puppies out there that would be destined for rescue. Not my handsome, talented boy!!! So I not only stay in contact with my puppy families but any family that has a dog sired by one of my dogs. I want them to have a second resource and safety net.
nidan48
03-12-2010, 03:49 PM
The breeders I've dealt with required that I sign a statement that if I were to give up the dog for any reason at any time that I would return the dog to them. That's 2 puppies and one "rescue," the breeder took back a 5 year old dog when its home situation went bad.
In my experience there are breeders who really care about their dogs. They are worth looking for.
Panama
03-12-2010, 05:43 PM
1. Do you usually get reg papers with a dog that is turned into rescue?
If so does rescue try to contact the breeder?? Many dogs are turned in with Reg. papers. Registration papers do not usually follow the dog. One owner relinquish that was turned over to me came with her papers, I personally contacted the breeder (found her website on line) and she could care less. Yes I was fuming and she certainly got a good earful that's for sure. The dog was spayed & placed without papers. I wrote VOID across them and sent them back to AKC with a sticky note.
2. Is it easier to place a dog with AKC papers or does it matter since it is rescue?
Most that are looking to adopt a rescue aren't really interested in the papers. They're more interested in a family companion. Some have asked about papers, but those are the ones usually looking for a dog with less than desirable intentions. If they are interested in Obedience or other AKC Licensed event that altered dogs are allowed to participate, then they can apply for special registration ILP/PAL for them to participate.
3. Is it easier to place a dog with cropped ears??? In my opinion, YES! Most are looking for the "traditional" Doberman look. There is a high % of natural as well as cropped Dobes in rescue, but I do feel the cropped Dobes are usually adopted over the natural earred Dobes.
4. Are most of the dogs from unknown backgrounds (BYB) or do you see as many dogs with decent pedigrees from breeders???? The ones I've rescued and fostered were from unknown backgrounds with the exception of the one with papers, which I found to be neither a reputable nor ethical breeder.
5. Do breeders try to work with rescue??? If so how or what can we do to work better with rescue? 1. Take back any pup you produce regardless of age or reason to keep them out of shelters & rescues. 2. Spay/Neuter and educate potential families on the importance of it. 3. If potential families are looking for maybe an older pup or young adult family companion, direct them to a local rescue group.
Long day, that's all I can think of right this second.
I have no clue as I have no experience in this area. Any help is appreciated?
Good post. All of the dogs I have rescued have no papers and we never know who the breeder is.....but they are not show dogs. And yes, cropped ears are much easier to place than uncropped ears.
Rhiannon
03-12-2010, 06:31 PM
As a breeder my puppies are placed on contracts with written health guarantees and one of the requirements of my five page paperwork is that if for any reason at anytime the owner can no longer keep the dog they are to be brought back to us. I don't care if it is a baby or a 15 year old dog. I bred it and it is my responsibility to take it back no questions asked. What frustrates me is the fact that just recently even with all of the required documentation I had a person either sell or give the dog to someone else. I was livid. However long story short the new person contacted me to find out about having his paperwork transferred to her. Which I will do after my interview with her. The dog has been neutered as required and she will have his limited registration paperwork. This could very easily not have gone well. The owner even gave the new owner my phone number so that she could call me. Duh......why didn't he call me? I can't get them to take my calls of course. I am grateful this has only happened once. I hope and pray it does not happen again. Any body else ever have anything like this. I don't want any of my puppies to ever end up being in rescue or a shelter. And even though our paperwork stipulates that it better not happen it just did.........so any thoughts on this to prevent this ever........
Good for you Rhianna. The rescues I see are not from people like you.
Years ago when I had toys, you never had to worry about rehoming, it just didn't happen. In dobermans, sometimes we just pick the wrong dog for the wrong family. My concern would be for the protection of the puppy first. I would suggest you microchip every puppy and that you put a penalty if they rehomed the dog without your written permission. States differ on laws etc. but at least this way they will have to pay if you don't agree with the home. In some states, you could recover the puppy if it was placed in a bad situation. It could discourage some from not keeping their word. Other people will refund the price of the placement, less expenses. Others, just offer to rehome the puppy period. Guess, all of these would work. We have a contract on our website now but it's outdated just like the site. I'll have to update it all at some point. I worry about the same thing.
I have only had a few litters and a few that brought back their dogs due to circumstances beyond their control. The benefit of having few, you know the people personally. But it can happen and you want to protect the puppy and be fair. A little do unto others works. LOL....
Most people will agree to these stipulations because you are acting in the best interest of the puppy.
Sounds like your puppy got a good home and that's what matters most. Good for you for caring!
Rhiannon
03-13-2010, 12:05 PM
Yes I do believe it is a good home and I am checking into the microchipping equipment for our use here. I thought my contracts were pretty strict but I guess not as much as I had hoped. But you are right it ended up being okay.
SnuzerDog
03-14-2010, 12:48 PM
Good post. All of the dogs I have rescued have no papers and we never know who the breeder is.....but they are not show dogs. And yes, cropped ears are much easier to place than uncropped ears.
My recent experience (last couple years) with our local rescue group, Hand Me Down Dobes, has surprised me with regard to this. I have to say that 40-50% of the dogs that the group acquires do NOT have ears cropped (some even still have tails, although that is much rarer) but are still adopted out as quickly as those with cropped ears!
I also get constant comments from people when we are out walking, almost all women, that they prefer the uncropped ears. Now, I tell them my boy is a rescue and that's the way he came, but that cropped or not they are the same great dogs. This bias appears to be a hangover from the Hollywood/Dobe craze of the 60's and 70's based solely on temperament misconceptions as associated with appearance. Personally I could care less, but I also tell people that cropping and docking is no more painful for a dog than cosmetic surgery is for humans... that seems to stop them in their tracks. Not sure I get where the 'cruel and inhumane' thing is coming from- appears to be a double standard. :confused:
I respect your opinion but dobermans are easier to place with ears done. It doesn't make them any less of a dog but it does give them a tendancy to have more ear infections. The tail isn't real good for a house dog, as it knocks things off. Our pups are given pain meds but seldom have problems with their ears after that. Most people want the tails and ears done, as it looks like the doberman. Others may tell ya more. This is just my opinion.
We have sold one pup that was uncropped and a great home and achieved her UDX. The home was most important to us. I would not place a puppy with uncropped ears in most situation. I don't regret it but that is rare, if ever again.
I understand your concern but I really think as a responsible breeder, I need to be able to make decisions that are best for my puppy. I don't think it is cruel and it is much easier to rehome cropped and dock dogs. It is healthier for the dog and they look more like the doberman breed. Just think there are many considerations.
Just my view. But I don't think uncropped dogs are less of a doberman but they are harder to rehome in my experience.
Big Dogs
03-15-2010, 06:42 AM
This post is really enlightening my knowledge of rescues is very limited we do on occasion do some evaluating and try to help out with some training issues but that is usually the extent of it. As far as contracts I do deal with that side of things on a daily basis and to be quite honest can be extremely hard and expensive to enforce no matter how they are written. To enforce a contract can take several years and end up costing thousands in fees and lawyers cost at which point you find out the person has nothing to give or the dog is dead or can't be found and this is from personal experience! I always inquire when we do work with the shelter as to the reason the dog was there and it usually came down to the same few reasons they didn't know he would get that BIG or he wouldn't listen or he chews on everything or the one that really explained the others they just didn't have the time all of the reasons tell me that the dog through no fault of his own was doomed from the beginning.
Dobs4ever
03-15-2010, 08:27 AM
Good info Big Dogs. I have had the same contract for over 15 years and believe that simple is better and easier for them to understand. There are some key points and I have always had a penality in case someone forgot. I have only had to endorce it once and it was easy. We can get them so complicate that people don't really read them or they are so long they really forget. It is not that hard to enforce if you use some common sense.
One of things I was told that is very important is to state what city, and state that the case will be filed. I was informed that you can just file a smal, claims suite, but never had to do that. The point of sale is important to include. One reason is the sales tax required in some states.
But I hear what BigDog is saying. There maybe circumstances that will not get the dog back or penalties, but it does discourage some that don't want to keep their word. I do know that AKC will change papers on lawsuits that you win, if ordered by the court. Never been there but have heard this. It is why you have to check and double check where puppies go.
Good for you, BigDog, for giving to your areas. The dogs thank you 4 that. I so agree, that some dogs are doomed. I don't know who sold this doberman to a young family with two babies and no yard. I mean dobermans can be fine with children but not without room and not on a chain out in the yard. You r so right.
SnuzerDog
03-15-2010, 11:49 AM
I respect your opinion but dobermans are easier to place with ears done. It doesn't make them any less of a dog but it does give them a tendancy to have more ear infections. The tail isn't real good for a house dog, as it knocks things off. Our pups are given pain meds but seldom have problems with their ears after that. Most people want the tails and ears done, as it looks like the doberman. Others may tell ya more. This is just my opinion.
We have sold one pup that was uncropped and a great home and achieved her UDX. The home was most important to us. I would not place a puppy with uncropped ears in most situation. I don't regret it but that is rare, if ever again.
I understand your concern but I really think as a responsible breeder, I need to be able to make decisions that are best for my puppy. I don't think it is cruel and it is much easier to rehome cropped and dock dogs. It is healthier for the dog and they look more like the doberman breed. Just think there are many considerations.
Just my view. But I don't think uncropped dogs are less of a doberman but they are harder to rehome in my experience.
RK, I am not making any judgements on your experience or cropping in general- just an observation of what I have seen in our rescue group. I personally believe there is nothing wrong with it (in fact I like a good crop), any more than there is anything wrong with people having male children circumcised! :eek::D
But with that said, it is not my opinion that the rescued Dobes we see in our group place just as quickly uncropped, it is a fact. We are placing anywhere from 5-10 dogs per month, in all manner of physical configurations and colors; currently there are 5 out of the 14 dogs available that are uncropped, and I can pretty well guarantee you they will not be on the site list more than a month or three from now. Please check out our website if you are interested or would like to see for yourself: http://www.hmdd.org/index.html (under 'Adopt a Dog/Dog List.) I think this may have to do with the fact that the people coming to a rescue group adoption (versus a breeder) are not necessarily as concerned with the breed standard and/or appearance, but that is just my speculation.
And I respect your POV just as much! :)
I only place a few each year in my county. I get a few because the sheriff owns one of my dogs and a fireman. The uncropped dogs were slower to place for me. My experiences are much more limited than yours in a rescue group. Good for you and glad all those dogs are getting good homes.
Why are these people placing their dogs in rescue?
Dobs4ever
03-15-2010, 05:13 PM
First I want to congratullate Snuzer Dog on a super job. Very nice web site and i took a look at every dog. It was encouraging to me to see that none of the dogs appeared to be from a good breeder. I say this due to conformation, lack of ears standing correctly, uncropped etc. Snuzer I am just making an observation trying to understand it all and look for answers. So I think for the most part good breeders are doing their part. Certainly most if those who are members of DPCA. I would not recommend a breeder who was not involed in the breed. It is not a guarantee but at least it is showing that they care enough to support the breed club and committed to follow a COE. And someone else who is trying to do things right recommended them.
I loved your stories of each dog. Very clever. So I think the question is how do you control it and I personally don't think anyone can without loosing all freedoms which I hold very dear. For those who rescue I applaud you. I am sure that sometimes you feel like the flood gates have opened. It personally makes me too sad so I focus on taking care of my own and consider that my part. Bless you for caring enough to open your home, heart and resources to these poor souls.
SnuzerDog
03-16-2010, 12:04 AM
Dobs,
Thanks for the compliments on the website, but they need to go to the lady who runs the group, and she is tireless in her work to rescue Dobes. She coordinates a large group of volunteers and fosters across the state, and actively searches out dogs in need of rescue. I'm pretty sure she has connections in every county animal shelter, and knows many vets. She directs the pickups, transports, medical needs, foster homes and adoption events for each animal, and supervises the screening process for adopters as well. On one hand it is very sad that we find so many, but I prefer to see it as a work of joy that we are able to help so many.
It really sucks that it is such a problem, but as you all may know, Ohio is still in the dark ages when it comes to animal/pet breeding controls- one of the worst states in the country for unregulated breeders (puppy mills.) There are efforts underway though, and have been for some time, to change. I think the main obstacle at this point for the state is deciding how new laws will be enforced- mainly by whom, and how will they be funded! Of course, it comes down to money as usual. But we do seem to have a pretty high incidence of dogs needing assistance- it seems like Ohioans have a long way to go in learning to take responsibility for their companion creatures.
I am still a newbie to the rescue group, only a year and a half with HMDD at this point. Robin (the director) asked me if I would be able to take Echo as a foster a couple weeks ago, but I had to decline because I have work travel the next couple weeks. When I saw her picture on the website it broke my heart, she looked so bad. But, I have a unique situation here in the city, and my wife is a professional as well, so it would not have been fair to either her or Echo for me to agree to take her and then be gone for several weeks when she needed so much care. :(
I love all dogs, and have always thought the best of the good, caring responsible breeders out there, who take care of each and every pup as if it were their own child. It's a good thing we have them to balance the irresponsible and ignorant people who treat dogs like disposable, inconvenient toys for their amusement. It never occurred to me that I would ever get into rescue, but here I am, and I'm finding it is getting under my skin. :o
Dobs4ever
03-16-2010, 08:38 AM
SnuzerDog It has to be a very hard situation to deal with and I know some of the pictures on the web site were just heart breaking. Rescue always needs good people to step up and do everything they can to save them. It is truly amazing how resillent a dog is and how quickly they respond to love and care.
There are so many different avenues to go to try to help. I know the rescues take a lot of flack also and there is no perfect solution or at least one that everyone can agree on but I am committed to supporting the two clubs that stand for our breed, DPCA and UDC. Again not a perfect solution and some always slip thourgh the cracks but we have to start somewhere.
I hope we can find solutions that actually affect the ones who cause the problems and not the good breeders who have poured their heart and soul into the dogs they produce.
If all breeders took care of their own, we would have far fewer rescues. Unfortunately, not all do. DPCA and other organizations do a lot to help rescue and that's needed. The dogs thank both you and snuzer for your part of helping the dogs we all love.
I tell ya what bothers me is when PETA blames all breeders for the rescues and saying we take homes from rescues. PETA puts 95% of their rescues down, while putting expensive TV ads, billboards, and protesting at dog shows. All in the name of loving animals. We all love animals but hobby breeders aren't the problem.
As far as finding a good breeder, the DPCA is a good source but like all things it isn't perfect and carries no guarantees. There are many ways hobby breeders contribute to this breed and DPCA is one way, maybe the best way, but not the only way. But they all should at least take care of what they produce, like you. We support what we buy.
Did I say it's just my opinion? LOL
Dobs4ever
03-16-2010, 01:02 PM
AMEN to PETA Talk about how far out a group can get while being so hypocritical and disguising their real agenda. Even died in the wool dog people through lack of knowledge support them. Makes me nuts. But good or bad without breeders there will be no dogs.
We just need to find ways to make laws that don't punish everyone equally when it is only a few that are the problem.
I know a lot of people have problems with AKC also but ya know even though not perfect they do more for the purebred dog than any other organization, support health through their own health foundation, saction dog shows and most of the things I hear people have problems with is once again a problem with a few people's ethics not everyones. If we ever solve this quandry we should win the Nobel Peace Prize.
Rescue money should go to the dogs, not other things. That's just wrong.
:rolleyes: Don't ya agree?
Dobs4ever
03-16-2010, 02:38 PM
What money are you referring too??? Going where????
Big Dogs
03-16-2010, 02:49 PM
I totally agree that the money should go for taking care of the dogs I DO NOT give money to any organization that participates in breed specific legislation we do donate time to the local SPCA but do not donate money. And PETA is a whole story in it's self.
DPCA and the AKC does work for the dogs. PETA is against having the right to have a pet or even eating meat. I like my steaks now.
What money are you referring too??? Going where????
PETA not spending money on the animals. PETA spends money on TV ads and billboards and not on the rescues. This is what I was saying.
Dobs4ever
03-16-2010, 06:48 PM
Sorry - I just missed the link - thanks for answering my dumb questions!!!
And thanks for answer mine. LOL
Educators say there are no dumb questions. :D
My recent experience (last couple years) with our local rescue group, Hand Me Down Dobes, has surprised me with regard to this. I have to say that 40-50% of the dogs that the group acquires do NOT have ears cropped (some even still have tails, although that is much rarer) but are still adopted out as quickly as those with cropped ears!
I also get constant comments from people when we are out walking, almost all women, that they prefer the uncropped ears. Now, I tell them my boy is a rescue and that's the way he came, but that cropped or not they are the same great dogs. This bias appears to be a hangover from the Hollywood/Dobe craze of the 60's and 70's based solely on temperament misconceptions as associated with appearance. Personally I could care less, but I also tell people that cropping and docking is no more painful for a dog than cosmetic surgery is for humans... that seems to stop them in their tracks. Not sure I get where the 'cruel and inhumane' thing is coming from- appears to be a double standard. :confused:
I revisited this post. It is funny how in different areas things can be different. If you look on this rescue site, most of all the dogs are not cropped and those remain unplaced. The cropped dogs in our area find homes much quicker or has been my limited experience.
http://www.petfinder.com/pet-search?animal_type=&pet_breed=doberman&location=74127&distance=0
I thought you'd enjoy seeing the dogs. Oh, the Sr. are the ones that breaks my heart......People are Crazy..
SnuzerDog
03-26-2010, 11:02 AM
I revisited this post. It is funny how in different areas things can be different. If you look on this rescue site, most of all the dogs are not cropped and those remain unplaced. The cropped dogs in our area find homes much quicker or has been my limited experience.
http://www.petfinder.com/pet-search?animal_type=&pet_breed=doberman&location=74127&distance=0
I thought you'd enjoy seeing the dogs. Oh, the Sr. are the ones that breaks my heart......People are Crazy..
Hi again RK!
Believe it or not, that site is the one that led me to HMDD for my dog! It could very well be that our rescue group has a higher frequency of placements of uncropped dogs than normal for whatever reason, and so I will not dispute what you see here on Petfinder. I think also that geographically speaking, people in some areas may feel that to have a 'true' Doberman the ears must be cropped and so those dogs would go faster in those areas. Could also be that some groups just flat do a better job of promoting their dogs and educating prospective adoptees, maybe. It probably varies widely; that is why I wanted to be clear that my experience has been limited to just our group.
But feel free to check back on the HMDD site every now and again; over the course of a few months you will see very few long-timers!
I just wanted you to see this and yes, I think the efforts done by those hard working rescue people matter. Your group has a beautiful site. Thanks for doing what you for the dogs.
Good point.
Dobs4ever
06-16-2010, 06:28 AM
What was the quote???? Those were questions I asked.
Hi Tommy, I'll try and remember all your questions. The quote thing threw me. LOL
All rescues work differently but there is really no reason not to give the AKC papers with a dog once it is fixed. In the case of my current puppies, I do have papers and they have marked limited registation. Some don't have papers. Some people that give them up do not give the rescue the papers. I do not know the % so I guess it depends on the situation.
There are many breeders that assist in Rescue. They foster or donate money or do rescue themselves. There are breeders that do nothing but contribute to the problem by breeding poor examples. Others just breed and do not rehome their own puppies if there is a problem. I guess, if everyone took care to stand by their own dogs - we wouldn't have rescues. (I guess?) Remember when a contract says you can not rehome the dog, that is not a bad thing and is protecting the puppy.
In my area, according to Marcia, the DPCA rescue chair or past chair, cropped dogs are in more of a demand and many times the uncropped dogs are much harder to place. Whatever our preference, cropping ensures if the owner dies or something unexpected and the dog has to be rehomed, a cropped ear is better, at least in my area. Others on the list have said that it makes no difference.
I'll have to go back and look if I missed any of your questions.
I really don't do enough rescues, only 4-5 a year so I really don't know always their background. I believe that most ethical breeders would take their dogs back, so less would be in rescues. Maybe a question for someone that works in Rescue or fosters more often. The rescue in Bixby and many rescues do scan so that breeders can be notified. I really can't say how often that has happened.
The 2 pups that I just placed was just a young couple with two dogs, a new baby and not a clue of what to do with puppies. To me, they look much better than some of the dogs I've seen on websites, but I have not done a pedigree on them. This is one reason many ethical breeders sell limited.
Just my experience and opinion, but regardless of whether you breed, do rescues, or are just a pet owner, rescues are our responsibility. With all the dog legislation, if we don't take care of the breed- the laws will continue to effect what we can do with our own dogs. Remember PETA's agenda may well be that no one owns purebred dogs. It's just something I think we all need to do and maybe one of the most important in fighting dog legislation. Fosters are needed across the country.
The male puppy is now looking for a home again. The lady didn't want him fixed and this is just something that is required of all rescues. We will still have his ears done. Discouraging.
Do you guys know of any rescue that placed dogs that are not altered?
Dobs4ever
06-16-2010, 11:56 AM
I was told by someone that rescued once that they are not allowed to give papers as they don't want anything coming back on the breeder. So to protect the guilty withhold papers.
I was told by someone that rescued once that they are not allowed to give papers as they don't want anything coming back on the breeder. So to protect the guilty withhold papers.
I know of no rescue that would protect a breeder by withholding papers. Some may withhold papers. I am not sure but I don't see why they would. Rescues are shown in obedience everyday, as well as Agility etc.
On the rescues that I have now,they have limited check on their papers and all I know is the breeder, mother, father etc. If the new owner orders a pedigree, it would show all the information. The papers will go with these puppies.
A rescue that would protect breeders that won't take back puppies they bred or hide .......are found out pretty quickly I would guess. I really don't know since I do few. I'll ask the Bixby rescue lady though and I'm sure she will know. Just don't think that sounds like what really happens.
Dobs4ever
06-16-2010, 03:50 PM
It makes a little sense as some folks could get really upset over how the dog was treated and decide to go after someone. I personally still think a dog deserves his papers. A lot of the dogs that show obedience can show with an ILP #.
dobeshowgirl
06-16-2010, 04:27 PM
It makes a little sense as some folks could get really upset over how the dog was treated and decide to go after someone. I personally still think a dog deserves his papers. A lot of the dogs that show obedience can show with an ILP #.
Suzan, is there a specific situation that you have encountered that involves this type of scenario??? I am just curious, more specifics may be give more insight into the outlook. Feel free to pm or email me girl :) I hope I can help, I recently rescued a boy who had his papers.....supposedly he was confiscated in a seizure situation by our local PD but had his papers.....makes ya wonder......
Dobs4ever
06-16-2010, 06:47 PM
Dobieshowgirl - I am referring to DPCA certified rescues. Not sure about any other organizations. I am researching further through the rescue list and will let you know.
dobeshowgirl
06-17-2010, 02:40 PM
That would be great Suzan :) I am curious too. I know from past experience with the weims, the national club held the papers. I uderstand the various reasons for that I guess but all in all every thing they hold the papers for could be achieved by other means ie. You want to keep track of how many dogs come through rescue from any particular BYBer....ok fine....make a copy of the papers and file it.
I'm not sure what the big deal is as to letting the papers go with the dogs....exciting for the familes, participation in AKC events without having to go through the ILP process.....all this of course providing papers arent going anywhere with UNaltered dogs....
Glengate
06-17-2010, 07:32 PM
I was told by someone that rescued once that they are not allowed to give papers as they don't want anything coming back on the breeder. So to protect the guilty withhold papers.
As someone fairly experienced with rescue, it has nothing to do with protecting the breeder but often has something to do with protecting the dog FROM that breeder in the future, and protecting the new owner of the dog FROM the BS of the breeder in some cases.
Many rescue dogs do go on to compete in performance events, and we would prefer them to have an ILP or a PEN in Canada. Why should the breeder's info be published in the catalogue for everyone to see and for them to take credit for the dog's accomplishments? A dog that they refused to be responsible for! If the breeder's info is published in the catalogue like it normally would be, that is free advertising for the breeder who wouldn't take responsibility for the dog and may very well lead to further sales for said breeder. That's one reason why rescue would prefer for the dog to be anonymous.
As someone fairly experienced with rescue, it has nothing to do with protecting the breeder but often has something to do with protecting the dog FROM that breeder in the future, and protecting the new owner of the dog FROM the BS of the breeder in some cases.
Many rescue dogs do go on to compete in performance events, and we would prefer them to have an ILP or a PEN in Canada. Why should the breeder's info be published in the catalogue for everyone to see and for them to take credit for the dog's accomplishments? A dog that they refused to be responsible for! If the breeder's info is published in the catalogue like it normally would be, that is free advertising for the breeder who wouldn't take responsibility for the dog and may very well lead to further sales for said breeder. That's one reason why rescue would prefer for the dog to be anonymous.
Thank you Glengate for this information. I can certainly understand this.
It is a shame when people don't take responsibility for their own dogs. I really wasn't sure about this as the fosters and rescues I have done in the past didn't have papers, so there was no decision to be made. Thanks for your experienced information.
Dobs4ever
06-18-2010, 06:25 AM
Glendate thanks for the info in Canada - Excellent reasons given and maybe that is what the person meant when I was given the info. I guess I just am so pro registration I hate to see a dog or person not have all the info they can get so they could research the lines for health etc. I do know a lot come without papers. I definitely agree that credit should not be given to someone who did not take care of their own.
Few have papers and fewer have any health testing etc. Acceptions to everything.
vBulletin® v3.8.3, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.