AKC and UDC/Ukc

[RKCM]

I was just wondering what is the differences in rules/showing in conformation in AKC vs UKC?

[FL_dobes]

UKC does not allow Professional Handlers. The rule states that it must be the owner of record or immediate family member. Although, a Professional Handler can show their own dog or a dog they co-own. I have seen a few people come in with 3 or 4 dogs the same breed and recruite one of the other exhibitors to handle a dog for them (which in my book goes against their own rules), but ..... I'm not involved in that aspect of Purebred dogs yet.....but hopefully soon!

I don't know anything about UDC.

[tidibole]

WOW...that is very interesting...I wasn't aware that the the person handling had to own the dog! or an immediate family member? How is that validated at time of entr?.Also not knowing a great deal about Conformation in UKC, is it true bait is not acceptable? I have only shown in obedience and in may ways prefer UKC over AKC but have never induldged in UKC conformation. Did look up the requiremnents for a GrCH...Nothing really close by!!!

[FL_dobes]

Again, I've only picked up tid-bits from going with a friend, having a dog ready for her when she switches dogs. Because I hope to someday get into conformation, she thought the best way to learn was to just go. I think the UKC shows are so much fun.

Bait is allowed by some judges, but some judges do not allow it. It is usually written on the board at ringside. Bait is not allowed to hit the floor at all. So, no flying hotdogs like I've seen at some AKC shows. Even if you accidently drop it when baiting your dog and the dog knocks it out of your hand.... a judge can dismiss a dog for that and have read of such happening on the UKC message board.

From what I've read, heard and seen, I can sort of understand why they are so stern about bait not hitting the floor. If you drop something crumbly or has alot of greasy residue (hotdog), it could make the next dog or class to that spot keep their nose to the floor.

As far as validating ownership, I've never seen them ask for I.D. when we check in for a show to pick up armbands. I've picked up armbands for her, and they never asked me who I was. She has a UKC CH Doberman, and having trouble finding shows to take him to that have at least 2 other Dobermans that have either their CH or GrCH so she can work on her GrCH title.

This is one of the reasons I so want a pup this next time, and not a rescue. D/H has brought up the idea a few times, but still hasn't said, 'ok, let's get a pup'. He'll come around!!! :) I would love to raise, train and show my own Doberman.

[RKCM]

How do you get points in UKC? Owners showing their own dogs seems like a more laid back atmosphere.

[FL_dobes]

Personally, I think an owner showing their own dogs creates more of a bond between the two (AKC, UKC or whatever other clubs).

I haven't quite got the Point System down yet, but I know they need 100 points & 3 Competition Wins under at least 3 different judges to get their CH title. The Grand CH title, they need to be a CH of record and win BOB over at least 2 other CH or GrCH (a mix of CH & Gr works too) 5x under at least 3 different judges to acquire their Gr CH title.

I guess there are alot of people that have a hard time even working on the Grand CH title as there must be at least 2 other entries of CH's or GrCH's to go for a leg to their Grand. My friend's Doberman earned her CH title but has trouble finding shows within a reasonable distance, (and she travels pretty far) with enough entries in the CH or Gr CH class to work towards a leg of her Grand.

Most UKC shows does allow Day Of Show entries, so some of them don't take advantage of the Pre-Entry price, so the Event Secretary doesn't have a full count until the day of the show! I'm sure if she knew there would be enough entries at a show within 400 miles, she'd be there!

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Rules/DEConfoUKCConformationPointSchedules

Kind of like the AKC handlers. They network to see who is going where. If a dog needs majors, they will hunt shows that might have enough entries to meet the major.

Sorry about the ramble......I've consumed and learned so much over the past few yrs....

[Dobs4ever]

With all clubs other than AKC the biggest problem is find shows anywhere let alone in close distance. Quite of few UKC shows will have obedience venue and not conformation so makes it hard to finish and their shows are usually much smaller so not enough entries to geta point. It is sade because I like the UKC venue also.

[FL_dobes]

I have got to work on d/h about getting a pup.

[tidibole]

I was just wondering what is the differences in rules/showing in conformation in AKC vs UKC?The UKC Website is very informative, especially the section regarding most common asked questions. Seems to be pretty straight forward. But it appears as if dogs win more points (15- Best female, etc)) from the beginning that at an AKC show assuming they have another class dog OR win over a dog in their respective group. It is definately worth reading. I have always had a fondness for UKC with several past dogs and a current dog Dual registered. The registration/pedigree that they issue is really attractive. The unfortunate thing as is in AKC, any non registry titles are eliminated from the pedigree. So UNLESS there have been changes, a beautifully AKC bred dog will have all the titles stripped unless UKC titles from the pedigree. If I am incorrect in this please let me know.

[Dobs4ever]

That is true of every registery - They only show titles earned in their venue, but titles are not stripped. You still have the titles on your AKC paperwork. When I think of stripping I think they are taken back or away and you loose hytm so I may not be understaniding completely what you are saying.

But that is one of the big reason that UDC folks have worked hard to get AKC to reinstate the Working Dog program. They wanted their titles to show on AKC papers.
So for an example - if you have a Sch I dog you can compete at at Sch II level in AKC and it will show a Sch II title on your AKC papers which let's everyone know you got you BH, and Sch I. If you have a Sch II dog in DVG - you can compete at the Sch III level in AKC and get your Sch III title but then for it show on DVG papers you would need to show at Sch III level for it to show on DVG or UDC papers. UDC does recognize Shc titles from DVG and Sch USA if you send in the appropriate paperwork

[FL_dobes]

I think the only venue that shows titles from other venues on their pedigree is International (IABCA). I'll have to look a their paperwork. I haven't been to one of those shows yet, but I've seen the paperwork you get when they critique your dog. It's pretty interesting.

[tidibole]

I think the only venue that shows titles from other venues on their pedigree is International (IABCA). I'll have to look a their paperwork. I haven't been to one of those shows yet, but I've seen the paperwork you get when they critique your dog. It's pretty interesting.No I don't think any registry accepts Int'l EXCEPT Int'l...although I have seen AKC CH. mentioned in their catalogs.. AKC excepts NOTHING but AKC, and so on...It is unfortunate as all of the titles aquired require time an MONEY..Again I could be wrong as I have not sent off for my most recent International cerrticiation.

[tidibole]

That is true of every registery - They only show titles earned in their venue, but titles are not stripped. You still have the titles on your AKC paperwork. When I think of stripping I think they are taken back or away and you loose hytm so I may not be understaniding completely what you are saying.

But that is one of the big reason that UDC folks have worked hard to get AKC to reinstate the Working Dog program. They wanted their titles to show on AKC papers.
So for an example - if you have a Sch I dog you can compete at at Sch II level in AKC and it will show a Sch II title on your AKC papers which let's everyone know you got you BH, and Sch I. If you have a Sch II dog in DVG - you can compete at the Sch III level in AKC and get your Sch III title but then for it show on DVG papers you would need to show at Sch III level for it to show on DVG or UDC papers. UDC does recognize Shc titles from DVG and Sch USA if you send in the appropriate paperworkI have SEVERAL UKC registrations with pedigrees whereas all AKC Ch titles and obedience degrees have been STRIPPED from that pedigree...unless earned by that registry

[FL_dobes]

No I don't think any registry accepts Int'l EXCEPT Int'l...although I have seen AKC CH. mentioned in their catalogs.. AKC excepts NOTHING but AKC, and so on...It is unfortunate as all of the titles aquired require time an MONEY..Again I could be wrong as I have not sent off for my most recent International cerrticiation.

Let me reword it so you might understand what I said.

I believe the IABCA is the only venue that will recognize titles from another venue and put them on the dog's pedigree from their registry.

I believe my friend's red female's IABCA pedigree say UKC, AKC & Int Nat'l CH....not exactly sure which order they are in, but I believe they are all on there. I will ask her.

But neither the UKC nor the AKC will recognize a title from another venue (that I've been able to find anyway).

[FL_dobes]

Nope......she said her Doberman's IABCA pedigree shows Int Nat'l, UKC & AKC CH in front of her name as well as her CGC after her name.

[tidibole]

Nope......she said her Doberman's IABCA pedigree shows Int Nat'l, UKC & AKC CH in front of her name as well as her CGC after her name.Definately confused now? Are we referring to an ENTRY of an IABCA show (in which case they put anything you want) or the actual PEDIGREE on a IABCA silver PASSPORT???

[tidibole]

Thank you for your implicity and helping me to comprehend what you attempting to say...It is appreciated...The IABCA NEVER checks to validate any titles by IABCA, as I have never sent any validation or confirmation in ... HOWEVER they still accept the title of Int'l Ch when further campaigning...in that venue!!!

[Dobs4ever]

I think that we are saying the same thing except strippig means disqualificaiton and the titles are resended. This is not the case. They are just not acknowledged or placed on the other speific reg. This is a standard proceedure but the titles remain valid in the other reg. Another registry does not have the authority to strip titles. They do not have to recognize them but they can't strip you of them.

[FL_dobes]

Definately confused now? Are we referring to an ENTRY of an IABCA show (in which case they put anything you want) or the actual PEDIGREE on a IABCA silver PASSPORT???

Yes, the pedigree in her IABCA Passport booklet that the judge writes in. It shows all of her titles regardless of venue.

[FL_dobes]

Thank you for your implicity and helping me to comprehend what you attempting to say...It is appreciated...The IABCA NEVER checks to validate any titles by IABCA, as I have never sent any validation or confirmation in ... HOWEVER they still accept the title of Int'l Ch when further campaigning...in that venue!!!

You earn National & Int National titles through IABCA (UCI), I hope they recognize/accept them.

[tidibole]

You earn National & Int National titles through IABCA (UCI), I hope they recognize/accept them.Yes that would be NICE, since I have them Both , Nat/Int'l on both of my dogs...along with the DIPLOMAS...as they prefer to refer to them...LOL...IABCA(International All-Breed Canine Association of America) and UCI (Union Cynologue International)Love the passbook ...has a tremendous amount of information regarding breeding if one was to employ that...and what their requirements are...It is very interesting...

[tidibole]

I think that we are saying the same thing except strippig means disqualificaiton and the titles are resended. This is not the case. They are just not acknowledged or placed on the other speific reg. This is a standard proceedure but the titles remain valid in the other reg. Another registry does not have the authority to strip titles. They do not have to recognize them but they can't strip you of them.Thanks, my thoughts, just better said....

[dobeshowgirl]

WOW...that is very interesting...I wasn't aware that the the person handling had to own the dog! or an immediate family member? How is that validated at time of entr?.Also not knowing a great deal about Conformation in UKC, is it true bait is not acceptable? I have only shown in obedience and in may ways prefer UKC over AKC but have never induldged in UKC conformation. Did look up the requiremnents for a GrCH...Nothing really close by!!!


Very interesting indeed... That is why I co-own my Grand Champion bitch with the person that is showing her for me :-) It is validated by the UKC at the time of entry, by the UKC issuing a temporary registration that you finalize after submitting to them copies of your AKC registration (or other registry information if applicable) and then they finalize it and send your registration to you.

I haven't had the pleasure of attending any of the UKC events myself yet, so I am not really sure how it compares to the AKC events, but I have been told that unfortunately the politics that we see all to frequently in the AKC ring are present in the UKC ring too.

:)

[FL_dobes]

The UKC rules state......

I. Prohibition against professional handlers in conformation shows. United Kennel Club events are intended to be family-oriented recreation for owners of UKC Registered dogs. Accordingly, UKC encourages the promotion of the owner/breeder handler and prohibits the use of professional handlers in conformation.

1. Construction of this rule. The prohibition against professional handlers is one of the cornerstones of UKC philosophy. Therefore, this rule is to be construed as broadly as necessary to achieve that goal. Each UKC Official Entry Form includes the following statement that must be signed by the owner/handler of each dog entered at a UKC event: “I swear that this dog is not being handled by a professional handler in conformation.” Dog owners and professional handlers who look for technical ways to circumvent this rule run a grave risk of losing their UKC privileges if caught.

and a link to the rest... http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Rules/DEConfoSectionXVRulesapplyingtoexhib

[dobeshowgirl]

The UKC rules state......

I. Prohibition against professional handlers in conformation shows. United Kennel Club events are intended to be family-oriented recreation for owners of UKC Registered dogs. Accordingly, UKC encourages the promotion of the owner/breeder handler and prohibits the use of professional handlers in conformation.

1. Construction of this rule. The prohibition against professional handlers is one of the cornerstones of UKC philosophy. Therefore, this rule is to be construed as broadly as necessary to achieve that goal. Each UKC Official Entry Form includes the following statement that must be signed by the owner/handler of each dog entered at a UKC event: “I swear that this dog is not being handled by a professional handler in conformation.” Dog owners and professional handlers who look for technical ways to circumvent this rule run a grave risk of losing their UKC privileges if caught.

and a link to the rest... http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Rules/DEConfoSectionXVRulesapplyingtoexhib


I just want to clarify before there is a misunderstanding that my dog is not being shown by a professional handler. She is my very good friend and we co-own the dog together with the breeder. We are very on top of all of the UKC rules and regulations as we are also very good friends with a UKC judge. She has been very helpful in making sure we know how things are done.

[Rhiannon]

UKC shows are very interesting. It took me a little bit of time to understand how things are tabulated as I am so used to the AKC ring. We will have two more of our dobes in the UKC ring this coming year. We are very excited about our dobe and are looking forward to her competing in the UKC Premier Event in June. She is currently on the top ten list and we will be showing her throughout the year to keep her up there. The UKC ring seems to be a little more relaxed than the AKC ring. I would certainly suggest that if you are interested in getting started in conformation with your dogs that this is a more friendly atmosphere. People are very willing to help you if you need it.

[FL_dobes]

dobeshowgirl....I saw you mention the co-ownership... someone mentioned they weren't aware that it is supposed to be owner of record or immediate family... that's why I posted that. A co-owner is an owner of record...

I've been to several UKC helping a friend and learning every time I go. Yes the people are very friendly and helpful. The AKC shows, there were some that talked to me, but others couldn't be bothered...maybe because I was handling, I don't know.

I'm working on my husband about getting a pup. We had a rescue and lost her not too long ago, and he's not quite ready for another dog. Wonder if I drag him to a show with us and show him what I would like to do....hmmm, now there's an angle!!!

[FL_dobes]

dobeshowgirl & Rhiannon are either of you in the South East region?

[Dobs4ever]

In UDC you can use a professional handler but most of us just show our own dogs. It is much more laid back than AKC. More than one dog can get their CH at the same time much like the Intl. But in UDC every dog must pass a temperament test to get their CH. They can get 3 excellent ratings and still not get the CC if they did not pass the TT. UDC focuses first on preserving the working ability of our Dobermans

[tidibole]

I have always enjoyed seeing who the Top 10 Dogs are in my breeds and different registries. Not only does it allow you see what is out there winning in conformation and obedience but also who the proud owners are. I remember Ch. Wingates Leading Edge, owned by Kathy Rambo Top 10 in both obedience and conformation AKC standings. He was a true pleasure to watch, in any venue and certainly a versatile dog.

[Rhiannon]

dobeshowgirl....I saw you mention the co-ownership... someone mentioned they weren't aware that it is supposed to be owner of record or immediate family... that's why I posted that. A co-owner is an owner of record...

I've been to several UKC helping a friend and learning every time I go. Yes the people are very friendly and helpful. The AKC shows, there were some that talked to me, but others couldn't be bothered...maybe because I was handling, I don't know.

I'm working on my husband about getting a pup. We had a rescue and lost her not too long ago, and he's not quite ready for another dog. Wonder if I drag him to a show with us and show him what I would like to do....hmmm, now there's an angle!!!

My daughter and I would support the dragging him to a show whole heartedly ....it has worked well for us........LOL :) That is actually how we were able to get by with adding an occasional dog to our little family. My husband got hooked himself on showing and so it was really easy to add a dog every now and then after that. So give it try it sure can't hurt a bit.

[FL_dobes]

How did you talk your husband into going?

[Rhiannon]

How did you talk your husband into going?

Well......My daughter told her hubby that if he didn't go....he got to keep the 3 girls home all weekend by himself :eek:

[FL_dobes]

LOL.........yeah, I can see how that worked out!!!

[tidibole]

What is really nice is simply, if you don't have to talk the husband into going and the kids don't want to go or have to go. Makes for a nice peacefully quiet day for everyone. LOL...That is why I am so fond of the International Shows in my area, they are outside, on beautiful grounds and even if the kids and hubby do come, there is so much more for them to do to keep them appeased. The only drawback is that is hot in the summer months and colder in the winter months. I remember one Novemeber, many people were huddled under parkas and blankets with their dogs until SHOWTIME, it rained, sleeted,and the wind was unbelievable....I personally enjoyed it. Dosen't happen but twice a year around here so*************let the fun begin...

[FL_dobes]

I wouldn't have little kids to worry about.... but if we went to say Mississippi he could always go to the casino. But he'd have to stay for at least 1 show. I need to rethink all these angles....

[tidibole]

I wouldn't have little kids to worry about.... but if we went to say Mississippi he could always go to the casino. But he'd have to stay for at least 1 show. I need to rethink all these angles....LOOL...It appears about making EVERYONE happy...I just find that going alone to a dog show just seems to strengthen the bond and relationahip between dog and handler. It is our one on one time....I do wish you luck in your endeavors///