Pant leg pulling

[dobeberfrau]

Sometimes at play Phoebe latches onto my pant leg and tugs or if I wear skinnly leg jeans she tries to bite/ nip at my legs. This is totally unprovoked and sometimes I am not even moving at the time. Thus far I have been giving her a sharp "No" and stop moving (if I was) and ignore her for a short time. I have also tried grabbing her collar and holding her snout for a short time telling her no and once she calms down praising her. She will at times come back and do the same thing. Does anyone know the best way to handle this?

[Sue J]

I had hoped those with more experience would chime in, before I answered but here goes. It sounds like to me you're doing the right thing if she's responding by decreasing that behavior. Those little teeth are sharp as needles aren't they. Jett used to nip me in the butt when she was about that age!!!

[Dobs4ever]

The biting of pant legs IMO is different to the biting arms and bare legs where the puppy acutally comes into contact with skin. Biting pant legs is the sign of a higher dirve puppy who needs direction. Kepp tuggy toys all over the hosue and when she comes to bite offer the toy instead and play for a minute. Show her this is more fun. When she does bite your pant leg freeze and don't move so it is not fun and off the toy instead. If you move your leg away she say AHHHHH this if more fun I can chase it.

Now for biting hands etc you are on the right track but when you correct if she comes right back at you she is telling you the correction did not phase her and did not match her desire to bite. So a little firmer. I grab the mouth simulating the mother dog who by the way ONLY has to correct one time and the puppy gets the message. So I gab the mouth squeezing til the puppy yelps. If they come right back I do the same thing only harder each time til the puppy decides that their might be better things to bite = You can then offer a toy to tug with and bite to their heart content.

[jack]

I find when my puppy bites my hand, I make a high pitched yelping sound and then proceed to ignore it, teaching it that the actions which it has done does not get the reward it ultimately wants, your attention. In saying this you need to teach the puppy through play the behaviour you want, remembering to never hit or hurt your puppy, as it is just learning what is right and wrong, and those actions will just create bad associations.

I have with the muzzle holding/squeezing, this creates negative associations, and the dog/puppy becomes hand shy and can have its recall affected. This however is my opinion, and this process is entirely up to you.

I highly recommend the book 'The Dog Listener' by Jan Fennell. I have found this provides immensely useful advice and is extremely helpful for raising puppies and correctly troubled dogs.

Would like to hear updates on how its goes.

Cheers:)

[KYbert]

it prolly varies dog to dog....my pup is constantly nipping at my pants.....he used to bite my arms and hands....tried yelping...which made him bite harder lol.....grabbing his muzzle and a sharp NO solved the problem quickly :D

[Big Dogs]

There are many different ways to train dogs and I have always said whatever works for you go with it as long as it isn't abusive. I have used the same training method as Dobes4ever suggested and recommended this to my clients with successful out comes. One thing that was told to me by an instructor many years ago has always stuck with me was if you want to learn how to correct a puppy look to the source ( there mother ) watch how she disciplines them when they are not behaving and how she rewards them when they are because she will always be a better trainer than you are. That being said in today's world it may not be the popular way but as my mother always said to me you will listen.

[Dobs4ever]

Sooooooo correct - When momma corrects you think she is surely killing the puppy - the puppy is screaming crying and momma is swift, dead serious and corrects once and the puppy says - Hey don't ever want to go there again and it is over. After corrections I always reassure the puppy that I am not mad by moving on to a toy to play and re-engage the puppy. 2 to 3 second correct and then it is over and on to postive.

[jack]

While I do agree with your method about the mother disciplining the puppy, I do not believe that most people can reciprocate it properly as they are not sending clear signals to the puppy 100% of the time as the mother would do. Most of us do not understand how the pack system works and do not understand how to do it properly which is why I do not think this method is appropriate for everyone. Just my opinion though lol:)

[Dobs4ever]

Jack- there is no one method that works for everyone and there is no one method that works with every dog. The more dogs you train the more you will understand this. You are so correct that timing is everything. What I was trying to say is most people nag nag nag the dog asking over and over for the dog to stop it until they loose their temper and then it really goes south. You should never correct in anger and you should never nag nag nag or yell. It is true dogs communicate better with each other and absolutely understand each other - and we can learn from their behavior as best we can. We will never be as good at it as they are but people have come a long long way in learning postive ways to work with thier dog.

If I had my choices I would rather make one correction and solve the problem as to continually nag nag nag. Much easier on both me and the dog. Dogs learn in pictures. That is why you have to get the, solid on a command and then change places and locations and add distractions so that they learn it means the same thing regardless of what the picture presents.

I have watched people with military background and their molvements are sharp crisp and exact everytime. They also have dogs who are sharp and crisp and exact in following of commands. For dogs it is exact and fast - I would say those two things will greatly improve anyones training. We have to try to train the way a dog learns.

I have always worked on the theory that 1,000 repetitions for the dog to get it in short term memory and 3,000 to move it to long term memory and muscle memory both of which play a big factor. The reason Gunner Plotzed the other night when I asked was because he has done it so many times it becomes a natural relex. I have worked with him on it since he was 8 weeks old. At two I would have been wasting my breath to ask for the plotz when he was on cat hunt. We are human we are the smarter or should be of the two. Somedays I wonder about me though.

[Big Dogs]

Jack I was reading through your post and Dobes4ever's post and a conversation a fellow trainer that I work with on occasion were discussing. A good trainer is always open to different techniques and styles to help them become more affective. There are different techniques I have seen through the 20+ years and to be honest some of them I have incorporated into my training program and some I have not it doesn't mean they were wrong I felt they were not as affective as what I was doing. No two dogs are the same so you have to constantly tweak your program to fit the dog ( some dogs are food oriented for others it's toys and some just praise) but there are two things that I hear from clients on a regular basis and my buddy that's a trainer also confirmed is I read a book that said such and such and they take it to gospel. It's different to read something and a whole different thing to apply it properly. The other thing I hear and and seems to be the in training method is we don't correct him we remove him or our self from the situation because thats what I read or have seen on TV or Video it's the kinder gentler way of training. I do not believe in being heavy handed or abusive in anyway that only leads to a dog that is unstable and unreliable, do I use treats and toys in the beginning along with praise yes. But my end goal is to have the dog work for me because he wants to not because I have treats or toys just praise for him that is what makes a stable reliable dog. Now do I use firm leash corrections yes but only to match the situation never in an abusive manner.

[Dobs4ever]

Big dogs so elequently put and so right on. I have always worked from the perspective that there are no corrections during the learning phase - then if you have to correct more than 5% of any training session something is wrong or not working. I know for some reason I had a hugh mental block on teaching Gunner fronts - He just didn't get it. I used every single method I had ever heard of and nothing was working. I asked everyone how did you train it - what was I missing. It had always worked before ---Still don't know what really worked but one day Gunner just got it. I never once corrected him because I KNEW the problem was mine. I had a very willing dog. I had a very capable dog. I just had not gotten creative enough to get the message to him correctly.

I now train it differently to puppies so I don't seem to have the issue I had with Gunner but I did not start working on it til he was 14 months - MY BAD!! I knew the problem was not Gunner's it was mine. Shrock on the other hand just got it from the beginning. But I started much earlier and in a whole different manner. Made a world of difference. Ayla on the other hand is a entirely different issue. I won't even bother to go there. Love that girl but she and I share PMS so not a good combo.

[Big Dogs]

I totally agree and from time to time my trainer friend will call me or I will call him for his input on a particular problem he or I are having. I feel I am constantly learning different things from different dogs. Here is a classic example of needing someones input beside your own because you just can't see it for some reason and it was with my own dogs. I like to work them at least twice a day sometimes three if we have had bad weather I was working our youngest dobe savage who is 15 months and every time I would bring him back inside our Great Dane the Dobes play toy and my wife's baby who is 13 months would growl at him and posture it only happened for two seconds and they would be best friends as usual and go take a nap with each other. This drove me crazy I just couldn't figure it out so I called my friend and he said work the Dane first he is feeling slighted, bingo! Started working the Dane first no more problems I was just to close to it to see it. Now I work them both together great test for the Blieb nothing like being distracted by your own brother, both are rock steady with it.

[jack]

I am on a learning curve to, and I didn't mean to tread on toes lol.
I know what you mean when you say not all methods work for all dogs, as I have found with my Spoo. I just simply meant to say that most people I find, who are inexperienced, cannot use that method properly and do not understand it properly. I completely agree with you on the sharp commands etc.

[Dobs4ever]

Jack you are right on - and you did not tread on any toes. the inexperienced have more trouble. I know I have had clients who bring me their dog acting up won't do much of anything all over the place - The minute I take the lead the dog calms down begins to heel follow instruction - and they are amazed. They were the problem not the dog. They just want to know what it is you want.

The dog can understand very quickly what we want when we know how to communicate it to the dog. I have heard Big Dogs say it before and I think he will agree it is always our biggest problem - not the dog but training the people. The dog knows when you know what you are doing and they know when you don't -

[Big Dogs]

Your absolutely right on what takes me three weeks to teach the dog takes me 4-6 months to teach the owner and for them to feel confident and relaxed doing it. It's funny when your talking about taking the lead and the dog changes the owner usually just says how do you do that I can't get him to do that. What most owners don't pick up on is the little corrections or changes in direction that I'm doing to get his attention on me. Oh and before I forget your fine Jack I enjoy different views.

[jack]

That is exactly right, I have been in that situation many times, where you take the dogs lead and the owner is stunned. It is so true it is more about training the owner more than the dog. Its so hard to understand tone on computers lol :)

[Dobs4ever]

Yes if we all agreed on everything what on earth could we discuss or learn from. As long as dogs are not being harmed I am OK>

[RKCM]

Some good pointers on puppies that play bite. They are learning their limits.....you set them.