major Pulling!

[tnsteelerfan]

Hi everyone, I have an awesome dog 95% of the time. 5% drives me crazy!!!! when I walk him he pulls. I have tried prong, choke, gentle leader, harness....Please any insight what helps to stop the pulling!!!
Brodys mom:D

[Dobs4ever]

The prong works if you use it correctly. The key is you have to let HIM hit the end of it one or two times and you turn and quickly pop the lead and march off in the other direction. Believe me when he hits the end he will stop pulling.

This is the easiest fix. You can also walk with him and just before he hits the end of the lead turn quickly and march off in another direction calling him and have a treat for him staying with you. If he gets by with pulling one time he will continue to try to pull. You have to be consistent all the time.

[tidibole]

Dobs is correct, if the prong collar is used properly it produces amazing results. I did have the opportunity to watch her dog work, even with the prong he was happy and attentive to her wishes. I had always been very squimish, but after she encouraged me to TRY, it was extremely beneficial. My boy's previous owner chose to use an electric collar and proceed with off lead obedience from a very young age. This ultimately made for few leash manners EXCEPT when in the ring. Using the collar and the treat as a reward is ultimately is the frosting on the cake. Generally when I have a young puppy, I start leash training very early definately with treats, and have never really had any issues until this boy. Don't be afraid of the collar. Good luck!

[tnsteelerfan]

I should have said the "prong" works except people walking near us good god they think hes a monster with this huge metal prong on his throat. Also have you noticed the fur on the neck looks thin i was thinking it was from the prong??? thanks alot!!!!

[Dobs4ever]

Thanks Tidibole. It was fun - Tyson really turned on to the toy also. Had you started him as a puppy we don't know what he would have been like but his great temperament still shows through inspite of a not so good beginning.

BUT the thinning hair is not from the prong. It is from the flat collar as he pulls rubbing the hair off. Who cares what people who do not know diddly think about your collar. Sorry that just makes me so mad that people who know nothing think they know what is right and wrong. Perhaps they would rather see you pulled into the path of a car and smushed.

Now I would not want to do the correction in public. The dog should learn at home so JQP public is not offended. Usually one good time of the dog hitting the end of the prong and a solid correction that makes him yelp gets his attention. Then when he naturally comes back to you as you encourage him reward him for coming to you. No big deal. AND everyone is SAFE for heavens sake.

[tnsteelerfan]

Thank you so much!!! ok so I just took him for a walk on with his prong collar on and he does do great. I guess I am justbeing overly sensitive to people saying negative things about brody..I have people who were walking their little fluffy dog say omg hes going to eat you for a snack! I mean I get so darn mad!!!thank you again that is why this site as so great to talkl to other dobe owners.

[Dobs4ever]

You are most welcome and I would tell them that more people are bitten by out of control ankel bitters than any large breed dog becasue WE TRAIN and chose dogs who had good sense. That's my opinion and I am sticking to it.

[OliveOil]

We know EXACTLY what you mean...some people are so uneducated.

[tidibole]

You also indicated you use a large prong? They have a tendancy to look very ominous especially when ill fitting combined with a thick leash and neither are generally needed if the collar is doing the work. It ultimately makes your dog look like "BIG BAD JOHN" I also think that the LARGE were perhaps designed for coated breeds? I use a puppy prong with additional links as well a micro. (neither of which appear detrimental to the dogs welfare) It is imperative that whatever you use is fitted properly with the choke portion accomolishing what you want or they really have no consequence. I also prefer nothing larger than a 1/2 leash with some even smaller but whatever you use the snap must be quality. When I take the "bad boy' out he wears the puppy prong and a thin leash allowing the collar to do the work not my arm. I will correct in public but as Dobs said you must do that with care and allow the dog to correct himself! Mine is squealer as if he is being totured..LOL.. I have noticed that observers will focus on the thin leash and be amazed rather than the collar! but above all you must exert the confidence that YOU know what YOU are doing and it really will keep the unknowing at bay.

[Big Dogs]

All very good suggestions here is something to remember the more in front of you your dog gets the less control you have over him and the more of a tendency they will have to pull. When a dog gets in front of you he goes into the mind set that he is tracking or leading and his focus is less on you which ultimately translates into pulling. Here is a quick exercise you can do before you actually begin your walk that will get your dogs attention on you and will take little or no correction. Take two or three steps and make a left hand turn your dog will most likely bump into your leg, take two or three more steps and do it again making a box pattern. Dogs do not like there heads bumped into and will start to pay attention to your movements. When he looks up at you praise him and begin your walk, if you watch him and he begins to get way out in front of you again correct him make a couple of left hand turns which will only take one maybe two and he will look at you almost instantly continue on several days of this and you shouldn't need hardly any correction other than verbally.

[tnsteelerfan]

Tidibole, do you mean the prong that says "fine" it look so small! It did not say puppy just fine, I was not sure but I got a Medium prong. how tight does it need to be? Thanks for the help....

[tidibole]

The 2 that I have, is actually a puppy, so probaby fine, the measuremenst of the links are 1 1/4 long by 3/4 inch wide at the widest point (Herm Sprenger). You have to remember the prongs are what do the work. My micro is 1 inch by 1/2 inch. It does beautifully on a better trained dog. I use that on my litttle Euro boy who is the photo with my name. I got him at 3 1/2 months so he really required very litttle while the bigger boy has no leash manners! The best way to explain the "choke" portion is simply that it must choke and have the leway to do so! I have seen many times a collar that when completely closed the links touch, this should not be the case! for example, my boy is 87# with a neck of approx 18 inches..I have 15 total links in the collar, which includes the end attachemnt links. When in a choke (the term sounds so dated) position the large ring separates the links so that a correction can be made. For all intent purpose, I probably could remove one more link. I have found that after a few uses, there really isn't that much pulling and he is happy when I get the collar as it is definately an indication that we are going or doing something. I personally feel that if the collar is used properly, it is far more beneficial than any choke chain, leather, webbed or chain...I have had wonderful results with this collar and have even attended an obedience class that sells them but also teaches their sudents the correct useage. I was told the collar should fit comfortably without digging into the neck UNTIL it is mandatory. I hope this helps a liitle, sometimes it is just so hard to explain adequately. Try the thinner leash, it will also make a big difference, you can actually keep a 6' more comfortably in your hand. I do have several Latigo but most of my leashes are Buffalo, very soft, strong an pliable. If you have a concern over the quality of the snap, you can always remove the snap and interlink the leash directly to the collar, which ultimaely elimates any potential weak points! Many confrmation leashes are made in that manner as they are generally very fine, even to handle a BIG dog. Hopefully this will be my last edit, but I wanted to make sure you understood that I am relatively new to this collar BUT what I have indicated to you works wonderfully for me. there are many more people who have vast expierience in the use of the collar, but perhaps not necessarily in training as a whole. good luck..

[Dobs4ever]

There is a beautiful choke made that is intertwined with leather which makes it much less obvious to those who are worried about it. If you are interested I can get the info for you on who to contact. They look more like a choke chain intertwined with leather as the prongs are not near as obvious.

You do need to measure the neck correctly on this collar for correct fit. When the pinch is on it should touch the neck when latched but not pinch or poke. If you have even an inch of play before the prongs are engaged then it is too loose and the correction is not effective. With dogs timing is a big factor.

[tidibole]

There is a beautiful choke made that is intertwined with leather which makes it much less obvious to those who are worried about it. If you are interested I can get the info for you on who to contact. They look more like a choke chain intertwined with leather as the prongs are not near as obvious.

You do need to measure the neck correctly on this collar for correct fit. When the pinch is on it should touch the neck when latched but not pinch or poke. If you have even an inch of play before the prongs are engaged then it is too loose and the correction is not effective. With dogs timing is a big factor.

I think the collar you are referring to can be obtained at Petsmart and I believe at Petco. It is standard choke collar with leather laced throughout? It is a pretty collar and I think even comes in more flattering colors. But if this is what you are referring to, it would be simple to duplicate yourself, just with a quality, my preference is buffalo, leather at a fraction of the store cost. Unless I am incorrect this is a standard choke not a pinch!

[tnsteelerfan]

Thank you so much Tidibole and dobesforever your help is so appreciated!!!! I really really thank you!

[tidibole]

DOBS is definately right on...that is why I suggested using the loop as a separation for the links and as mentioned before, I could have removed one more link. But it suitable for me. FIT is of the utmost importance. Even a standard choke chain, when tightened should not exceed 2 inches in length and again my preference is even less unless in the breed ring, at which point that play of length is not suitable..

[Dobs4ever]

No as stated I am referring to a pinch collar with the leather woven in. I ordered two - one in black and one in brown I liked the looks so much for when out in public. I would still train in our working pinch at home

I do not ever use a choke for any reason, Too much danger of throat damage.

[tidibole]

No as stated I am referring to a pinch collar with the leather woven in. I ordered two - one in black and one in brown I liked the looks so much for when out in public. I would still train in our working pinch at home

I don ot ever use a choke for any reason, Too much danger of throat damage.

If correctly used I see no problem! A trained dog can use a chain as if there was NOTHING on the neck at all, not unlike in obedience competition.. I use a FINE jewelers link and/or the Snake chain. I thought your previous posts indicated the use of a FUR SAVER? Still a CHOKE is it not? or perhaps I was mistaken? Also what do use in the conformation ring? Nylon, leather, or a show chain?

[Dobs4ever]

It is suggested for working dogs that when showing in a trial you use a fursaver over a choke chain as it disperses the pressure over a larger area because of the larger links. It is not recommended for day to day use. Once a dog is trained of course you should be able to walk the dog on anything but for day to day wear I do not ever recommend the choke collar as it is proven that it can cause damage to the throat and is not affective for correction. People are free to use whatever they choose so with the facts on the possible damage to throat area, I choose not to use the choke.

In showing as everyone knows you use a show lead which is a choke chain either nylon, chain or leather but again it is only used when going to the show ring I do not use it on a day to day basis or when walking or training. I don't like it, but it is the only safe way to control a dog in the show ring. I don't set the rules I just try to follow them.

Just like the bit on a horse the smaller the bit the more severe - same with choke chains the smaller (hence the snake or serpentine chain for showing) the more severe. I certainly would not use a snake chain for jewelers chain as a day to day collar.

Thank heavens AKC recognizes we do still need control of the dogs in the ring. At the show Sat a big bullmastive attacked an Akita and of course they are shown in the normal choke chain which gave them no control of the dogs but are stronger than the serpentine chains. It was not pretty. Fortunatley they did manage to get them apart before too much damage was done. But the choke was totally inaffective for correction. I also doubt, so you won't misunderstand, that the small choke chain used for showing would also not be affective on these huge dogs.

[jelly8bean]

Lots of good advice given here, however I would suggest a good visit with a trainer to fit and understand the uses of a prong collar. I have never used one and would feel very uncomfortable trying to fit it with just Internet advice. As with any training tool it must be used correctly to be effective for training. The primary thing is patience and consistency as with any training.

My Rottie and my dobies were all taught to walk with me on Gentle leaders, and it takes time, but once trained they have been great on flat collars ever since.

[tidibole]

Thank you for the clarifications, however, I DO use a FINE Serpentine on a daily basis and actually find it to be NO MORE severe than an individual uses a TOW chain for a collar and having absolutely no knowledge as to the use. A fine chain, can be snapped before it cause injury. They are technically designed for the SMALL breeds or the well behave large breeds and certainly DO NOT have the strength to endure a rowdy training episode. My "bad boy' wears a FINE braided leather choke on a daily basis UNLESS he requires the pinch while my Euro boy can use a piece of bailing twine and be fine. As I mentioned my dogs are started from puppies learning to walk on a leash so that generally pulling is not an issue. As far as SHOW goes, I have SEEN many a handler as well as individuals STRING up dogs on a choke while gaiting for whatever reasons rather than allowing free movement. I really do not believe that the factor of the type of collar is as vital as the useage. Nylon under the throat can also do damage! When I DO show, which in all honesty is LIMITED I use a custom made 1/4 inch rolled leather collar with attached leash and that can cause as much throat damage. Although I agree in your comparison with horses to some degree, but it is not generally true that the smaller the more severe, the "shanks" on a bit play a very important part, longer shanks, more severity. Look at the pelham, broken or not. This could be left open to dicussion under an entirely new thread which would be interesting, lets face not none of us know everything and SHOULD always be open to learning!

[Dobs4ever]

I do apologize Tidibole if you felt I was trying to be argumentative. That was not the purpose of the info given. The more info someone has the better decision and I did feel the facts on chokes was important in the equation especially for a novice handler. Each person has to decide for themselves as I have stated several times.

I would also hesitate to recommend a collar that would "break away" before doing harm as to me the purpose of the collar is to be sure the dog is secure and safe. I would hate to see a collar break just as a car is going buy - I would not think that a good situation.

I do love the learther chokes you mentioned. They are far different from the chain choke so do not cause near the damage that a chain can cause.

[tidibole]

I do apologize Tidibole if you felt I was trying to be argumentative. That was not the purpose of the info given. The more info someone has the better decision and I did feel the facts on chokes was important in the equation especially for a novice handler. Each person has to decide for themselves as I have stated several times.

I would also hesitate to recommend a collar that would "break away" before doing harm as to me the purpose of the collar is to be sure the dog is secure and safe. I would hate to see a collar break just as a car is going buy - I would not think that a good situation.

I do love the learther chokes you mentioned. They are far different from the chain choke so do not cause near the damage that a chain can cause.
And I should perhaps apologize if I came across as argumentative as well! Just seems that we walk on egg shells when in all actuality our thoughts are not that digfferent. But as I indicated only the GOOD boys get the benefit of a serpentine for use. I do not consider it a breakaway, but a response to using this type of collar for training. I don't train in the street or in an area that could pose potential damage to a less than trustworthy dog. As you know I have a well set up areas for different training.