Buyer BEWARE :Thunderstorm Dobermans

[duffeesgrl78]

I will make a very long story short. I bought a puppy from Lance and Heather Landes of Thunderstorm Dobermans of Indiana. I paypal'd Lance $2150 for a happy, healthy black male doberman puppy. I was told that the puppy had "popped a stitch" from playing with the other puppies, and was told that antibiotics were being sent with him, because the vet had to stitch it back up, before they could put the puppy (Sparticus) on a plane to Phoenix from Indiana. I was NEVER told anything else about the condition of the dog. As far as I knew and from the way his other dogs looked on his website, I thought he was a reputable breeder. BOY WAS I WRONG !! He advertises that his dogs are show quality, yet doesnt do dew claws. He advertises that the puppies come with a HEALTH GAURANTEE, yet when you have an ISSUE, he isnt there helping, he's the one causing the problem. Telling you not to bother to e mail him, because he will DELETE them on site. Thats what I call BREEDER SUPPORT> Anyways basically my gorgeous little man he sent me was so jacked up from head to tail. LITERALLY. My baby's ears were fried from their Vet. He was emaciated .The laser crop was a war crop and not a nice MEDIUM length, like advertised. And his tail was sooooo infected and still is by the way ( a week later) that he may end up losing what little tail he has left. Due to the negligence of Lance and the Vet that he willingly takes these poor helpless puppies to. Only to be hacked on and not given the proper care, that they deserve. I would like to just get the WORD out there to further protect any future doberparents, who are looking around. HIs web site is nice, his adults look nice, and he is nice on the phone. Until you actually need him to stand behind his phony gaurantee's. Then his TRUE colors SHINE THROUGH !!. PLease feel free to copy my pics and paste them on your own personal blogs and websites, so that you may help me pass the word on ,that this breeder needs to be shut down......Be a voice for the puppies who dont have one>




I have pics, but I cant post them until I have 15 posts? I guess

[dobiesoul]

did you check out any references on him prior to your purchase? I've seen some pretty bad references to him on other sites. I'm not looking for a doberman, but after seeing pictures of him and his "wife" on his website, I would not buy anything from them. I hope your pup gets better after all that he's been through already. Glad you have him now and can turn his ideas around about human beings. Good luck.

[Dakota]

I've posted the pictures on my own website with a warning to never buy pups from this breeder.

This story really hit me hard when I saw those pictures... terrible breeder.

[jonarde]

I purchased a littermate to your pup. Here is an e-mail exchange between Lance and me concerning the condition of my pup when he arrived. I leave it to the reader to draw his/her own conclusions:

Subject: Re: Planned
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:51:59 -0800

Hello Lance --

I want to update you concerning the pup we received into our home a week ago last Saturday. First, I want to thank Heather for the incredible effort she put forth providing me pictures of Angel and taking him in the middle of the night to the airport. She kept me informed along the way which was very much appreciated. Please convey my sincere thanks. I know it's part of her "job" and she does it many times over, but it is still a lot of work. And, of course, thank you for your part in making it happen.

The pup now has a name -- "Cosmos". He'll probably be called Cosmo for short because it's easier to say. Anyway, there are some health issues that we had to immediately deal with that I think you would want to know about as a breeder. First, he was very thin. His hips and ribs were predominantly showing and it was noticeable enough that several people who saw him within hours of his arrival independently commented on it. As I am writhing this, he has gained enough weight to make this a non-issue, but it was a concern when he first arrived.

Secondly, there was a note taped to the crate from the Houston kennel of Continental Airlines, advising that a whole worm was seen when the pup pooped while waiting for the connecting flight to Sacramento. The note advised immediate Vet attention upon arrival. Of course, Cosmos has been dewormed again and, although I have not yet taken a poop sample to the vet, I will do so soon and expect no problems. I don't know how to explain the presence of a worm because I know the pup was dewormed according to a schedule as indicated in the paperwork. The paperwork indicated that another "injection" was due Jan 30. By "injection", I assume it was meant "deworming". Because it was due on the day of shipment, it didn't get done until I was able to get the pup into the vet.

Lastly, I was warned by Heather that the pup had broken the wound on his tail open in the course of being crated. She indicated that the stitches has been removed the day prior. When he arrived, the stump was bright red and bleeding very slightly. The tail, of course, has been attended to and minor surgery has been performed to staple the end closed as much as possible. He wears an e-collar which, of course, is a pain in the ass for both him and us. If this doesn't work, a more major procedure will have to be performed to remove enough tissue to allow complete closure by stitches. I do not anticipate this being necessary, however. The vet commented that the wound looked as though the tail had been docked later than 3 days post birth.

Although none of the above issues will present long-term problems, you can understand the concern they presented when combined with one another... the pup arrived looking thin, sporting a bloody tail stump, with a note on his crate that he has worms and should be seen by a vet immediately! Perhaps the solutions could include leaving the stitches in the tail to avoid the possibility of the wound breaking open. I'm not sure how to address the worming -- perhaps ensuring that any procedure due on the date of shipment gets done before being shipped. It might also be helpful to have a couple days worth of antibiotics come with the pup since it usually takes a few days to get into a vet.

Cosmos is a great pup and seems to have adjusted to his new surroundings. He is a lot of fun and we look forward to enjoying him as he matures. Thanks for your and Heather's part in getting him to us.

--Jonarde


Subject: RE: Planned
Date: 10 February 2010 9:51:20 PM


Hi again Jonarde . I will pass along the compliments to Heather for her hard work and effort . I am also glad to hear that Cosmo is doing well .
I would like to explain some of the things that you have expressed concern about . First of all let me apologize on my wife's behalf . This is her FIRST litter in which she has handled most every aspect of . I am concerned she did not address some of these issues as I myself always have in the past . still this is not an excuse .
Let me address the issue with the tail docking . All of our puppies ARE docked at 3 days of age . However this is never cut and dry ( no pun intended ) . Often the mothers lick the puppies tails obsessively and the tails develop an unsightly scar mass at the end of the tail . when a particular puppy has one of these lumps of scar tissue , we pay our vet to remove it at the time of ear cropping . ( obviously at no charge to you ) . Many breeders would just leave this lump to look not appealing for the rest of the dogs life . However we feel that the end result to have it removed is a much more appealing look , and therefore have the lump removed to better complete the " finished look " of the doberman . Often puppies lick or bite at the sutures , and then the tail becomes open . Which I thought my wife had explained to you . I'm sorry if she did not.
AS far as the under weight issue : ALSO , I ( when handling all the final details ) make an EXCESSIVE point to stress that the puppy will ALWAYS be underweight upon arrival . This is due to a few factors , the primary being that the puppy has to go 24 hours without food . ( 12 hours prior , and 12 hours post ) . This is to prevent any food being in the stomach in case the the puppy would aspirate under anesthetic .
secondly , there is obviously the stress of the procedure , and the shipping . This ALL contributes to the shape in which the puppy arrives . As you are now seeing your puppy is picking up weight fast and will continue to do so . I can assure you with any puppy from this combination , his arrival is certainly the LAST time you will ever be seeing him thin .
AS far as the worm issue . I myself wormed wormed your puppy 2 days before his departure . However I do know how it could take place that the airport in houston would say they saw a worm . when the worming medicine takes effect it kills worms for 2-3 days . Upon taking effect the puppy will pass dead and dying worms . They stop holding on to the walls of the intestine and pass out of the puppy as they are dead or dying .
AS I wrote on the bill of sale " puppies constantly are reinfecting themselves with worms and worm larvae , and should be continued with worming regularly ( per your vets personal instructions ) until six months of age .
At which time the puppy will only need worming every 3 months . ( or per your vets request ) .
As far as the " injection " date . As it is written on the vaccination record it says " your puppy will be ready for another vaccination on ......... ( the date ) . My wife wrote the next vaccination date in that area of the paperwork , as I did not being as how I performed the first vaccination and my wife performed the second one .
" Injections" are for vaccination only . ALL worming is done but an oral tablet .
I hope this helps explain some of the things I myself did not , and that I thought my wife had addressed . I certainly wanted to respond to you e-mail and make things a bit more clear , as to what you had experienced and why .
Feel free to let me know if you have any other concerns . and please feel free to keep me updated with comsos' progress . You truly will have a beautiful mature doberman in about a year . And Im sure you will be even far more pleased then you can even imagine at this moment .


Thanks , LANCE LANDES

[Dobs4ever]

Jonarde - Thank you for posting this. Anyone who has every had anything to do with showing, breeding, breed clubs etc would know better than to every buy a puppy from this breeder. It is required by the airport to put last feeding date on the fight info and it has to have been within 4 hours. So the without food for 24 hours is a lie unless he uses some off beat airlines I am not aware of. They have to have 2 food dishes in the crate and food taped to the top silly since I know the airlines will not feed them but none the less. They do not want any puppy hungry.

If puppies are wormed correctly and kept clean they will not have worms. I have mine screened several times and have never had a puppy with worms so that puppy was thin due to poor feeding and malnourished plus worms. In puppies this can cause health problems down the road.

If the flight is long the puppy can look sunken in in the tummy area until fed but you should not see bones and ribs - this is clearly a lack of proper feeding and care.

Puppies should be put on heart worm preventive at 4 months - this usually takes care of worms so the til 6 months is strange. A puppy should never be underweight at arrival.

He is pretty correct on the tail. I also have mine repaired if they need it at ear cropping. Funny comment: "at my expense" Whose expense would it be but the breeder?

So this is Heather's first litter??? - My gosh she has been there all along. I don't think either one know how to correctly care for the dogs and now he openly admits he has pushed them off on someone else - why just to make money???

Sorry that you had this problem. Hope Cosmo continues to do well.

[RKCM]

Sorry for your problems with your puppy and we hope Cosmo is doing better.

I don't know this breeder and I prefer a different type of doberman and will not address the kennel. I think it is hard on a puppy to be shipped and I much prefer to visit.... maybe he just had too many to notice things. I do not understand what the rush was to ship the puppy with a healing tail and not properly wormed or thin. So sorry your puppy had to go through all this and you.

We hope Cosmos tail healed and he is doing better. Very disappointing to get a puppy with worms, a bleeding tail, and thin. I'm glad he has a good home and hope he is doing well now.

Welcome to the forum and we look forward to hearing more about Cosmo.

[Dobs4ever]

Jonarde - Sorry I forgot to say welcome to the Hub. If we can help you with your puppy just let us know. It is not his fault where he came from. We hope to see pictures soon.

[duffeesgrl78]

Wow I am actually surprised that Lance was that cordial with you. I got alot worse treatment from him. I wasnt as nice as you were to them though either. I basically sent him before/after pics (the second day I had him) of how the tail looked, how it looked after my vet fixed it. How the ears looked, then how they looked after my vet fixed them. Then I asked for a refund of $550 that it cost me to get the vet to re crop his ears, fix his tail and the vet did the dew claws for free since the puppy already had to be put under. Either way, I was treated like shit, and so was my dog. So I will NEVER recommend ANYONE buy a puppy from them.I will continue on my crusade and get the word out through the internet that they are GREEDERS. Only looking out for them and have no concern for the beautiful babies they are shipping across the country.

[RKCM]

I have reread these posts and am so sorry that this has happened to two people on the forum. Like I said, I prefer a way different type of dog. I am not defending, nor would I defend this breeder. I don't know him and only viewed the website which was not of interest to me, nor would it be somewhere I would buy a doberman.

I would like to say that most people don't give too much greed to forums and blasting people and even, fewer read them that buy puppies. Blasting or warnings happens all the time on forums and sometimes it's justified and some times it is not. We all have very strong feelings about this breed and how they should be treated and not all are the same. The same goes with breeders and this is why you should have visited the kennel if you were not sure of his practices etc. You should have read the contract more carefully to ensure you have some recourse on this type of thing or not sent him that much money on a puppy until you knew what you were supporting. It is a shame you have to do that but it is just life and some people don't do like we think they should. I guess, the bottom line is you support what you buy and you supported this kennel. WE ALL have made mistakes and you aren't the first to make the wrong choice. No one is perfect. I feel bad for you both, but it is what it is........but mostly, I feel bad for the puppy that arrived with a bleeding tail, thin, and wormy......:mad:

I hope you will post some postive things on the forum about your new dobermans. Since you are keeping him, I feel sure that you have some of those positive things to share on the forum. Also, posting gives other people an idea about you and the reasons you bought your dog or what wonderful things you wanted to do. Just think that would be nice. We all make mistakes and this is just my honest opinion.:cool:

Welcome and again very sorry you had this experience.

[Dobs4ever]

I think when two people come on with a problem with one breeder we are seeing a pattern starting to form. I appreciate them coming here and sharing their story. Hopefully it will help some future innocent from being taken in by this breeder and their less than stellar practices not to mention the breeder misrepresenting things. A quality breeder would recognize an under nourished puppy with worms.

[RKCM]

I think when two people come on with a problem with one breeder we are seeing a pattern starting to form. I appreciate them coming here and sharing their story. Hopefully it will help some future innocent from being taken in by this breeder and their less than stellar practices not to mention the breeder misrepresenting things. A quality breeder would recognize an under nourished puppy with worms.

4Ever, I am not disagreeing with you but what I was saying is that people need to either know who they are buying from or go there. I have no defense for this breeder and would never buy anything from this kennel. But then, I have been around for a long time and seen a lot. I believe you support what you buy and if you aren't sure, either don't buy from them or go there and see for yourself. I did wonder how in the world they selected it and wondered if they had a contract. I appreciate them sharing and feel really sorry for them, more so for the puppy because the tail thing and shipping sounded horrible! I do wish I knew who they were and why they bought their dog, pet, working or what? Not that it matters, just that I'd like to know what happen to the puppy etc. Don't you? And I gave my opinion that you have to be a little more careful in this world.

No one said he was a quality breeder and we read the response. I think you know I know better than that.

[Dobs4ever]

RKCM - In today's world global economy it is unrealistic to think that everyone meets everyone and rides off into the sunset. Regardless of how anyone does business there is an unspoken vow of faith. We as breeders above all should be honest and we really can't be so ill prepared that we make mistakes. Our clients count on us. I can't find fault in someone who innocently got taken. If they did not know better how can we then lay part of the blame at their door??? And for your info I do know what happens to my puppies every single one and have the reputation to prove it. Both families felt comfortable enough to buy the puppy in good faith and had no reason to doubt what they were told. Integrity does not diminish with distance. It is nothing today for people to purchase things from web sites. We all do it all the time and have to trust that the implied honesty and integrity is there. That is why people have web sites.

[RKCM]

This post wasn't about you and your ethics or website. Although, websites can be very confusing, Not all are for selling puppies and some aren't honest. I was asking about their dog and what happened to their puppy. Just a sad story all the way around.

[duffeesgrl78]

As to defend myself...I did not know that I would get my pup in that condition...obviously I was convinced that he was a reputable breeder. I do not show, nor do I do any kind of sport. I lost my last dobie and waited 5 years to get another one. I am not an expert on the breed or breeders for that matter. I looked at doberman breeders in Az but either didnt find one I liked, or couldnt find one that was having puppies this year. Yeah I was ignorant and I believed what they told me. why wouldnt I?? People buy puppies from the internet all the time...not all end good but I trusted that because this guy had a website and what he said on the phone sounded legit, there was no reason to doubt him. Like I said I was ignorant. But it is what it is, and I got an unhealthy puppy. But with much love and many vet visits later I have the most beautiful boy ever.With the most amazing personality. Thats what really makes this whole thing even worse. I truly believe Lance from Thunderstorm Dobermans is using good breeding stock. Its obvious with the temperment of my boy...but the way they are ignoring their(puppies) his care is disgusting!! I just wanted to warn people not to trust them like I did. Yeah call me red neck, whatever,Im not...I just love my boy and he will have a wonderful life with me and my kids.

[RKCM]

Thanks for coming back and letting us know about your puppy. Thanks to you he has a better life. We are all sorry you and the puppy had to go through all this, sincerely.

I wasn't putting you down, but when we pay people for a dog, we help them continue breeding. That is all I meant and if I received a puppy in that condition, I'd be more than red-neck. Just sometimes you have to be careful because you don't know and not everyone has the puppies best interest at heart.

If this is typical of his practices, that is sad. I don't know the people and just know that your puppy went through a lot. I hate shipping puppies but it is done everyday. I would worried too much and it just isn't worth it to me in most situations. I understand your situation may have been different.... So Sad. Thank you for coming back and letting us know he has a happy life now. I hope his tail healed and you are now enjoying him. Thanks to you he has a good life.

Yes, I have heard that his Euro dogs come from a well known kennel. I am not fond of the Euro dogs in general but all dobermans are beautiful little gifts, regardless of where they came from. Best Wishes to you.

[Dobs4ever]

I will contribute this on shipping as I have shipped puppies from the beginning. If the puppy has a stable temperament, has been properly socialized it is a GREAT experience for them and they sail through it. I have never had a problem with it and neither have my families. Yes i have had some puppies arrive late but again stable temperament and proper socialization are the key, otherwise there is a problem bigger than shipping brewing.

As a new person you had no way of knowing and as I said when you do business of any kind anywhere there is always an implied trust. Even if you go meet someone there, they are on their best behavior and you can make just as big a mistake. So going there is not as big a deal as we might believe. An honest person is honest and trustworthy regardless. Just like all businesses there are good and there are bad apples. The bad apples get all the headlines.

[duffeesgrl78]

As soon as I have 15 posts and can post pics I will. Sparticus is a very LOYAL and protective boy. He is great with my 4 kids and my 3 other dogs. It is sad that thunderstorm dobermans does business like that, and unfortunately if I could I would put them out of business. But we all know just me alone cant do that. Thats why I do post about my personal experiences and I have the photographic proof to back it up. Its not just heresay. I will keep posting and sharing my experiences just so if anyone does do research on forums like this or googles "Thunderstorm Dobermans" this will pop up in the search. It may not help a whole lot, but it is helping a little cause I have already had numerous people contact me who were almost going to get a puppy from Lance at Thunderstorm dobermans, but they saw my posts, and I sent them the pics and now they decided to look else where. Im happy with that. Yeah he is still breeding, but maybe if he doesnt sell his pups as fast, he will slow down and have less. I dunno...just a thought???:confused:

[Dobs4ever]

Good for you and glad you are here. We want to see pictures. He does come from some good Euro bloodlines - not his fault - That is how quickly poor breeders can run down a good bloodline. I have seen it with several "breeders" not just TS. What makes me sick it it just amazes me with all the good breeders out there how so many people get pulled into their web site. Why ? Why are they so easy to find and everyone else so hard??? do they just advertise everywhere so that is how you find them???

Anyway Hope Sparticus is on the mend and back to normal soon. Post pictures when you can

[jonarde]

I informed Lance Landes of these postings and, am posting his reply as I feel it is the fair thing to do. Once again, I leave it to the reader to draw his/her own conclusions. I have omitted the last name and phone number of the vet he refers to:

Subject: RE: Planned --Update
Date: 10 April 2010 5:19:05 PM

well I am glad that you are choosing not to verbal assassinate ME or my wife for any issues regarding this matter . I Honestly wish instead of thinking that we are trying to make up excuses , for the issue with the tail , and contact our vet and simply ask so that you might in fact ACTUALLY have " the facts " . About this tail issue .
I can only imagine what you must truly believe since my explanation wasn't accepted .
I can however tell you what is fact , and you can in turn , verify the facts by a simple phone call to our vet .
Your puppy , was examined by our vet , and was issued a health certificate , by a licensed and well respected vet , He was wormed every week while he was here and since he was 5 weeks of age .
His tail was docked when he was 2 days of age , and his tail was repaired by our vet , at the time of his ear cropping .
I am sorry that you might think that this is not the case . And I do truly understand that this tail issue has certainly been a huge ordeal . This is unfortunate , but it was done with only the best intentions for a nice finished tail .
I hope that you would understand that , and that I myself had nothing to gain by ANY of this . Our intentions were in the right place . We have had several of our OWN dobermans here in our program with their tails repaired also . Brahm bones for an example had his tail repaired at 8 weeks , However we did not have much of any trouble and his tail healed up fine .
My wife and I have nothing to gain by causing ANYONE or any of our dobermans or dobermans produced in program any harm . We have worked far to hard to achieve the things that we have in the years we have invested on a daily basis with our dobermans , and our program to jeopardize all that for any reason would be senseless .

We have now issued new protocol , and in the future , when we have to have puppies tails repaired , we will not allow ANY puppies to go to their new homes until their ears and tail are 110 % healed . Also we will send 2 doses of worming for their new owner to administer them to the puppy themselves , so that they might know without a shadow of a doubt that their puppy has been given wormer , because the new owners will be able to administer the pups wormer themselves also .
These above mentioned things will in my opinion alleviate any of the issues that you have experienced , for others in the future .
Worming meds only cost $5 , per puppy , per week from 5 weeks of age on . I know you may not accept this either , but for $15 - $25 per puppy , ( depending upon how long they stay here ) , I have VERY little to gain by not supplying them with wormer . In fact I have everything to LOOSE . So I would at least wish you to consider that aspect of things .
I have been the owner of a successful tattoo studio for the last 10 years . I have 7 artists that work for me , and one of southern indiana's busiest studios . I did not get this way by cutting corners , and producing bad products , or cheap methods .
And I am the exact same with our dobermans . We traveled the world to find and import what we feel to be exceptional quality dobermans . And I would not exhort so much of my time , money , and efforts to intend to produce and put out poor quality or unhealthy dobermans either . That is simply not the case . I don't think you would have come to be interested in purchasing a doberman from us if you didn't like what you saw on our website , and believed what was written there .
Like anything else I do in life , I stand behind what I do . And I would like to help reimburse you for any vet bills that you might have had , do to this tail situation .
I would however , appreciate as a return courtesy , if you would take the time to speak with my vet about the situation with your pups tail . That way you would at least hear from my vet that she performed this procedure , and that it is a common practice . Rather than thinking I don't even know what .
If you would contact Sue H at 812-xxx-xxxx , or I can have her contact you if you would rather .
I appreciate the manner in which you contacted me , and I want you to be certain that I will reimburse you for any costs you might have incurred with the tail . we stand behind what we do and produce , and I will be happy to reimburse you .
I would also be happy to speak with you about all this on the phone as well . If you would like to call me anytime at 812-xxx-xxxx.

Thanks , LANCE LANDES

[duffeesgrl78]

Thats funny that Lance offered to reimburse you for your vet cost cause he didnt offer me. He told me to send the dog back to him at my exspense and he would give me a full refund. I didnt want to send the dog back, especially after I saw the condition of him. And worming once a week for 6 months is extreme...Obviously whatever wormer they used wasnt killing the TYPE of worms our puppies had. I had to pay $20 for 1 pill from my vet. So $5 for the wormer is alot cheaper than what I paid. And it wasnt working, obviously. My pup was soooooooooooooooo infested it looked like he was pooping spaghetti noodles, all over my yard. It was disgusting. Sorry to be so graphic, but it wasnt just a mild case of him having worms. It was really really bad. His tail didnt just come with a stitch popped.It was severely infected. The vet had to remove and additional 1/2 inch just so he could stitch it back up.It was swollen like a golf ball on the end. Then me and my husband had to poke the end of it with a needle to drain all the infection out of it. We nursed the poor little guy for the first month we had him. We have had him 2 months and he's gained over 30 lbs. To me thats alot of weight for a puppy to gain. I wasnt as nice to him as you are being, I sent him before and after photos and told him I was reporting his vet, and also that I wanted a refund for the vet. Or $$$ back, because I no longer had a show quality dog,but a pet quality . I had already had a handler for Sparticus that was going to put him in puppy matches to start him out, once she saw how short his ears and tail were, she said he no longer could be shown. I dont show nor do I know anything about it.But thats why I wanted to get a dog from Lance. He sold Sparticus with full registration, most breeders dont. So basically I pissed Lance off by telling him that, so he told me if I email him again, he will delete them on sight. Either way, I am blessed to have my baby boy. Hopefully Lance will put as much effort into his "breeding program" as he does his tattoo shop. I do think he breeds amazing dogs. Everything that was wrong with our puppies are from negligance on his part, and a really crappy vet. Im glad to hear he wont be shipping the pups out with stitched tails anymore. Thats great.

[Dobs4ever]

It is funny that with mounting pressure he finally agreed to reimburse one of you but not the other. Had he just done it right the first time he probably would not have had these problems. Puppies with worms can cause serious problems down the road. FYI the correct worming of puppies starts at 2 weeks not 5 so more misinformation. Once a puppy gets worms they are much harder to get rid of for some reason.

Duffiesgrl78 - I would contact him again and see if he is ready to help out. Good breeders keep puppies til ears are healed and tail repairs are done. Of course it eats deeply into your pocket as they eat like little horses if you keep them longer so money might be the issue but it is the right thing to do.

[duffeesgrl78]

They never even sent me pics of the mother like they were supposed to, or the 4th generation pedigree... I really have no desire to ever have contact with them again. I may send them updated pics of his progress, buts thats about as far as I will go. They had their chance on several occasions of me calling them, and emailing and they chose to turn their backs on their problem they created... Sparticus is very very loved and well cared for now, and I feel blessed to have him as apart of our family. Looking into his gentle eyes every morning makes me know it was alllllllll worth it.

[Dobs4ever]

Good for you - Glad you are putting it behind you. Good dogs alone is not the entire answer as you see the breeder is the other half of the equation - their great vast knowledge in all areas, training, raising puppies correctly to maximize their potentional, proper health care of those puppies tilt hey leave, proper care of the bitch prior and after whelping, nutrition, ear cropping, tail docking, etc. so many things that play a part.

[RKCM]

They never even sent me pics of the mother like they were supposed to, or the 4th generation pedigree... I really have no desire to ever have contact with them again. I may send them updated pics of his progress, buts thats about as far as I will go. They had their chance on several occasions of me calling them, and emailing and they chose to turn their backs on their problem they created... Sparticus is very very loved and well cared for now, and I feel blessed to have him as apart of our family. Looking into his gentle eyes every morning makes me know it was alllllllll worth it.

Enjoy Sparticus and glad he has a great home. You may already know this but you can get a pedigree from AKC.

[duffeesgrl78]

Thanks everyone

[duffeesgrl78]

I just uploaded pics of what he looked like when I got him....Everyone who was wondering about THUNDERSTORM DOBERMANS, see for yourself

[freeze3kgt]

wow, those are horrible pictures of him, im glad your getting him better

[my2rotties]

Where are the pictures? I am a dummy and don't know where they were uploaded to...

As sad as this situation is... no dog ever comes into your life by mistake and I a sure fate put you with your pup. I hate that people take unsuspecting buyers and do this to them.

[Panama]

they are in duffeesgrl's profile in a photo album.

http://forums.dobermanhub.com/album.php?albumid=67

[COKEEFE]

We also purchased a puppy from Thunderstorm kennels after our dobe of 13 years passed away. I have also raised some pups from my old girl. Unfortunately, I came upon Lance's kennel. He has lied to many about his crop at 3 days of the tail he tries banding the tails and they are not very good at banding as my dog still has problems with her tail she is now 1 year. When we first saw her at 3 weeks she was very sickly looking and with a huge pot belly. They took us to a kennel which Lance assured us was a temporary thing that the dogs go to his home where there is room to run. We came back several weeks later to pick up our pup who had a huge pot belly, smelled horrible but the mom in me wanted to save this little thing even if it cost me money to save. Strange but true. Her worms were so bad I could feel them in her stomach on the way home. The next day the worms began to come out of her full size and well over a hundred. We whisked her to the vet and began deworming. she had so many worms they were crawling out of her in her carrier. She was skinny and emaciated and he claime to have wormed her. After seeing her condition I had her ears done by my vet. She still is skinny after a year and very hyper. we love her and yes she is pretty but she has some aggression issues which stem from intense fear of other dogs. We have tried numerous times to work her though it but it has been a long road. So buyer beware. Yes a pretty dog but I regret continuing helping Lance and his wife continue this abuse of such a wonderful breed. also, taking a trip to his kennel all the dogs were very very skinny and Arte the mother of my girl had her pups taken away early so he could hurry up and breed her again. We felt so bad for all the dogs but we could only save one. As for Lance, we told him about the problems and he dismissed them and we had trouble with the papers because Arete was not his dog but on loan. all his info on the web is simply bogus. Stay away from this so called breeder.

[Panama]

OMG, that's horrible. I'm so glad I have 2 wonderful breeders to work with.

[concerned for our future]

This is really nice to know as I have an email from them asking to purchase one of my females. Thanks for the heads up.