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Old 02-15-2010, 10:37 PM   #1
duffeesgrl78
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Default Buyer BEWARE :Thunderstorm Dobermans



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I will make a very long story short. I bought a puppy from Lance and Heather Landes of Thunderstorm Dobermans of Indiana. I paypal'd Lance $2150 for a happy, healthy black male doberman puppy. I was told that the puppy had "popped a stitch" from playing with the other puppies, and was told that antibiotics were being sent with him, because the vet had to stitch it back up, before they could put the puppy (Sparticus) on a plane to Phoenix from Indiana. I was NEVER told anything else about the condition of the dog. As far as I knew and from the way his other dogs looked on his website, I thought he was a reputable breeder. BOY WAS I WRONG !! He advertises that his dogs are show quality, yet doesnt do dew claws. He advertises that the puppies come with a HEALTH GAURANTEE, yet when you have an ISSUE, he isnt there helping, he's the one causing the problem. Telling you not to bother to e mail him, because he will DELETE them on site. Thats what I call BREEDER SUPPORT> Anyways basically my gorgeous little man he sent me was so jacked up from head to tail. LITERALLY. My baby's ears were fried from their Vet. He was emaciated .The laser crop was a war crop and not a nice MEDIUM length, like advertised. And his tail was sooooo infected and still is by the way ( a week later) that he may end up losing what little tail he has left. Due to the negligence of Lance and the Vet that he willingly takes these poor helpless puppies to. Only to be hacked on and not given the proper care, that they deserve. I would like to just get the WORD out there to further protect any future doberparents, who are looking around. HIs web site is nice, his adults look nice, and he is nice on the phone. Until you actually need him to stand behind his phony gaurantee's. Then his TRUE colors SHINE THROUGH !!. PLease feel free to copy my pics and paste them on your own personal blogs and websites, so that you may help me pass the word on ,that this breeder needs to be shut down......Be a voice for the puppies who dont have one>




I have pics, but I cant post them until I have 15 posts? I guess
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:02 PM   #2
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did you check out any references on him prior to your purchase? I've seen some pretty bad references to him on other sites. I'm not looking for a doberman, but after seeing pictures of him and his "wife" on his website, I would not buy anything from them. I hope your pup gets better after all that he's been through already. Glad you have him now and can turn his ideas around about human beings. Good luck.
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Old 03-09-2010, 01:27 PM   #3
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I've posted the pictures on my own website with a warning to never buy pups from this breeder.

This story really hit me hard when I saw those pictures... terrible breeder.
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:55 AM   #4
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I purchased a littermate to your pup. Here is an e-mail exchange between Lance and me concerning the condition of my pup when he arrived. I leave it to the reader to draw his/her own conclusions:

Subject: Re: Planned
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:51:59 -0800

Hello Lance --

I want to update you concerning the pup we received into our home a week ago last Saturday. First, I want to thank Heather for the incredible effort she put forth providing me pictures of Angel and taking him in the middle of the night to the airport. She kept me informed along the way which was very much appreciated. Please convey my sincere thanks. I know it's part of her "job" and she does it many times over, but it is still a lot of work. And, of course, thank you for your part in making it happen.

The pup now has a name -- "Cosmos". He'll probably be called Cosmo for short because it's easier to say. Anyway, there are some health issues that we had to immediately deal with that I think you would want to know about as a breeder. First, he was very thin. His hips and ribs were predominantly showing and it was noticeable enough that several people who saw him within hours of his arrival independently commented on it. As I am writhing this, he has gained enough weight to make this a non-issue, but it was a concern when he first arrived.

Secondly, there was a note taped to the crate from the Houston kennel of Continental Airlines, advising that a whole worm was seen when the pup pooped while waiting for the connecting flight to Sacramento. The note advised immediate Vet attention upon arrival. Of course, Cosmos has been dewormed again and, although I have not yet taken a poop sample to the vet, I will do so soon and expect no problems. I don't know how to explain the presence of a worm because I know the pup was dewormed according to a schedule as indicated in the paperwork. The paperwork indicated that another "injection" was due Jan 30. By "injection", I assume it was meant "deworming". Because it was due on the day of shipment, it didn't get done until I was able to get the pup into the vet.

Lastly, I was warned by Heather that the pup had broken the wound on his tail open in the course of being crated. She indicated that the stitches has been removed the day prior. When he arrived, the stump was bright red and bleeding very slightly. The tail, of course, has been attended to and minor surgery has been performed to staple the end closed as much as possible. He wears an e-collar which, of course, is a pain in the ass for both him and us. If this doesn't work, a more major procedure will have to be performed to remove enough tissue to allow complete closure by stitches. I do not anticipate this being necessary, however. The vet commented that the wound looked as though the tail had been docked later than 3 days post birth.

Although none of the above issues will present long-term problems, you can understand the concern they presented when combined with one another... the pup arrived looking thin, sporting a bloody tail stump, with a note on his crate that he has worms and should be seen by a vet immediately! Perhaps the solutions could include leaving the stitches in the tail to avoid the possibility of the wound breaking open. I'm not sure how to address the worming -- perhaps ensuring that any procedure due on the date of shipment gets done before being shipped. It might also be helpful to have a couple days worth of antibiotics come with the pup since it usually takes a few days to get into a vet.

Cosmos is a great pup and seems to have adjusted to his new surroundings. He is a lot of fun and we look forward to enjoying him as he matures. Thanks for your and Heather's part in getting him to us.

--Jonarde


Subject: RE: Planned
Date: 10 February 2010 9:51:20 PM


Hi again Jonarde . I will pass along the compliments to Heather for her hard work and effort . I am also glad to hear that Cosmo is doing well .
I would like to explain some of the things that you have expressed concern about . First of all let me apologize on my wife's behalf . This is her FIRST litter in which she has handled most every aspect of . I am concerned she did not address some of these issues as I myself always have in the past . still this is not an excuse .
Let me address the issue with the tail docking . All of our puppies ARE docked at 3 days of age . However this is never cut and dry ( no pun intended ) . Often the mothers lick the puppies tails obsessively and the tails develop an unsightly scar mass at the end of the tail . when a particular puppy has one of these lumps of scar tissue , we pay our vet to remove it at the time of ear cropping . ( obviously at no charge to you ) . Many breeders would just leave this lump to look not appealing for the rest of the dogs life . However we feel that the end result to have it removed is a much more appealing look , and therefore have the lump removed to better complete the " finished look " of the doberman . Often puppies lick or bite at the sutures , and then the tail becomes open . Which I thought my wife had explained to you . I'm sorry if she did not.
AS far as the under weight issue : ALSO , I ( when handling all the final details ) make an EXCESSIVE point to stress that the puppy will ALWAYS be underweight upon arrival . This is due to a few factors , the primary being that the puppy has to go 24 hours without food . ( 12 hours prior , and 12 hours post ) . This is to prevent any food being in the stomach in case the the puppy would aspirate under anesthetic .
secondly , there is obviously the stress of the procedure , and the shipping . This ALL contributes to the shape in which the puppy arrives . As you are now seeing your puppy is picking up weight fast and will continue to do so . I can assure you with any puppy from this combination , his arrival is certainly the LAST time you will ever be seeing him thin .
AS far as the worm issue . I myself wormed wormed your puppy 2 days before his departure . However I do know how it could take place that the airport in houston would say they saw a worm . when the worming medicine takes effect it kills worms for 2-3 days . Upon taking effect the puppy will pass dead and dying worms . They stop holding on to the walls of the intestine and pass out of the puppy as they are dead or dying .
AS I wrote on the bill of sale " puppies constantly are reinfecting themselves with worms and worm larvae , and should be continued with worming regularly ( per your vets personal instructions ) until six months of age .
At which time the puppy will only need worming every 3 months . ( or per your vets request ) .
As far as the " injection " date . As it is written on the vaccination record it says " your puppy will be ready for another vaccination on ......... ( the date ) . My wife wrote the next vaccination date in that area of the paperwork , as I did not being as how I performed the first vaccination and my wife performed the second one .
" Injections" are for vaccination only . ALL worming is done but an oral tablet .
I hope this helps explain some of the things I myself did not , and that I thought my wife had addressed . I certainly wanted to respond to you e-mail and make things a bit more clear , as to what you had experienced and why .
Feel free to let me know if you have any other concerns . and please feel free to keep me updated with comsos' progress . You truly will have a beautiful mature doberman in about a year . And Im sure you will be even far more pleased then you can even imagine at this moment .


Thanks , LANCE LANDES
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Old 04-10-2010, 07:57 AM   #5
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Jonarde - Thank you for posting this. Anyone who has every had anything to do with showing, breeding, breed clubs etc would know better than to every buy a puppy from this breeder. It is required by the airport to put last feeding date on the fight info and it has to have been within 4 hours. So the without food for 24 hours is a lie unless he uses some off beat airlines I am not aware of. They have to have 2 food dishes in the crate and food taped to the top silly since I know the airlines will not feed them but none the less. They do not want any puppy hungry.

If puppies are wormed correctly and kept clean they will not have worms. I have mine screened several times and have never had a puppy with worms so that puppy was thin due to poor feeding and malnourished plus worms. In puppies this can cause health problems down the road.

If the flight is long the puppy can look sunken in in the tummy area until fed but you should not see bones and ribs - this is clearly a lack of proper feeding and care.

Puppies should be put on heart worm preventive at 4 months - this usually takes care of worms so the til 6 months is strange. A puppy should never be underweight at arrival.

He is pretty correct on the tail. I also have mine repaired if they need it at ear cropping. Funny comment: "at my expense" Whose expense would it be but the breeder?

So this is Heather's first litter??? - My gosh she has been there all along. I don't think either one know how to correctly care for the dogs and now he openly admits he has pushed them off on someone else - why just to make money???

Sorry that you had this problem. Hope Cosmo continues to do well.
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Old 04-10-2010, 08:09 AM   #6
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Sorry for your problems with your puppy and we hope Cosmo is doing better.

I don't know this breeder and I prefer a different type of doberman and will not address the kennel. I think it is hard on a puppy to be shipped and I much prefer to visit.... maybe he just had too many to notice things. I do not understand what the rush was to ship the puppy with a healing tail and not properly wormed or thin. So sorry your puppy had to go through all this and you.

We hope Cosmos tail healed and he is doing better. Very disappointing to get a puppy with worms, a bleeding tail, and thin. I'm glad he has a good home and hope he is doing well now.

Welcome to the forum and we look forward to hearing more about Cosmo.

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Old 04-10-2010, 08:10 AM   #7
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Jonarde - Sorry I forgot to say welcome to the Hub. If we can help you with your puppy just let us know. It is not his fault where he came from. We hope to see pictures soon.
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:26 AM   #8
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Wow I am actually surprised that Lance was that cordial with you. I got alot worse treatment from him. I wasnt as nice as you were to them though either. I basically sent him before/after pics (the second day I had him) of how the tail looked, how it looked after my vet fixed it. How the ears looked, then how they looked after my vet fixed them. Then I asked for a refund of $550 that it cost me to get the vet to re crop his ears, fix his tail and the vet did the dew claws for free since the puppy already had to be put under. Either way, I was treated like shit, and so was my dog. So I will NEVER recommend ANYONE buy a puppy from them.I will continue on my crusade and get the word out through the internet that they are GREEDERS. Only looking out for them and have no concern for the beautiful babies they are shipping across the country.
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Old 04-10-2010, 05:47 PM   #9
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I have reread these posts and am so sorry that this has happened to two people on the forum. Like I said, I prefer a way different type of dog. I am not defending, nor would I defend this breeder. I don't know him and only viewed the website which was not of interest to me, nor would it be somewhere I would buy a doberman.

I would like to say that most people don't give too much greed to forums and blasting people and even, fewer read them that buy puppies. Blasting or warnings happens all the time on forums and sometimes it's justified and some times it is not. We all have very strong feelings about this breed and how they should be treated and not all are the same. The same goes with breeders and this is why you should have visited the kennel if you were not sure of his practices etc. You should have read the contract more carefully to ensure you have some recourse on this type of thing or not sent him that much money on a puppy until you knew what you were supporting. It is a shame you have to do that but it is just life and some people don't do like we think they should. I guess, the bottom line is you support what you buy and you supported this kennel. WE ALL have made mistakes and you aren't the first to make the wrong choice. No one is perfect. I feel bad for you both, but it is what it is........but mostly, I feel bad for the puppy that arrived with a bleeding tail, thin, and wormy......

I hope you will post some postive things on the forum about your new dobermans. Since you are keeping him, I feel sure that you have some of those positive things to share on the forum. Also, posting gives other people an idea about you and the reasons you bought your dog or what wonderful things you wanted to do. Just think that would be nice. We all make mistakes and this is just my honest opinion.

Welcome and again very sorry you had this experience.

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Old 04-10-2010, 07:42 PM   #10
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I think when two people come on with a problem with one breeder we are seeing a pattern starting to form. I appreciate them coming here and sharing their story. Hopefully it will help some future innocent from being taken in by this breeder and their less than stellar practices not to mention the breeder misrepresenting things. A quality breeder would recognize an under nourished puppy with worms.
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