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Old 04-10-2010, 08:26 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Dobs4ever View Post
I think when two people come on with a problem with one breeder we are seeing a pattern starting to form. I appreciate them coming here and sharing their story. Hopefully it will help some future innocent from being taken in by this breeder and their less than stellar practices not to mention the breeder misrepresenting things. A quality breeder would recognize an under nourished puppy with worms.
4Ever, I am not disagreeing with you but what I was saying is that people need to either know who they are buying from or go there. I have no defense for this breeder and would never buy anything from this kennel. But then, I have been around for a long time and seen a lot. I believe you support what you buy and if you aren't sure, either don't buy from them or go there and see for yourself. I did wonder how in the world they selected it and wondered if they had a contract. I appreciate them sharing and feel really sorry for them, more so for the puppy because the tail thing and shipping sounded horrible! I do wish I knew who they were and why they bought their dog, pet, working or what? Not that it matters, just that I'd like to know what happen to the puppy etc. Don't you? And I gave my opinion that you have to be a little more careful in this world.

No one said he was a quality breeder and we read the response. I think you know I know better than that.

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Old 04-10-2010, 09:05 PM   #12
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RKCM - In today's world global economy it is unrealistic to think that everyone meets everyone and rides off into the sunset. Regardless of how anyone does business there is an unspoken vow of faith. We as breeders above all should be honest and we really can't be so ill prepared that we make mistakes. Our clients count on us. I can't find fault in someone who innocently got taken. If they did not know better how can we then lay part of the blame at their door??? And for your info I do know what happens to my puppies every single one and have the reputation to prove it. Both families felt comfortable enough to buy the puppy in good faith and had no reason to doubt what they were told. Integrity does not diminish with distance. It is nothing today for people to purchase things from web sites. We all do it all the time and have to trust that the implied honesty and integrity is there. That is why people have web sites.
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Old 04-10-2010, 09:56 PM   #13
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This post wasn't about you and your ethics or website. Although, websites can be very confusing, Not all are for selling puppies and some aren't honest. I was asking about their dog and what happened to their puppy. Just a sad story all the way around.

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Old 04-11-2010, 06:09 PM   #14
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As to defend myself...I did not know that I would get my pup in that condition...obviously I was convinced that he was a reputable breeder. I do not show, nor do I do any kind of sport. I lost my last dobie and waited 5 years to get another one. I am not an expert on the breed or breeders for that matter. I looked at doberman breeders in Az but either didnt find one I liked, or couldnt find one that was having puppies this year. Yeah I was ignorant and I believed what they told me. why wouldnt I?? People buy puppies from the internet all the time...not all end good but I trusted that because this guy had a website and what he said on the phone sounded legit, there was no reason to doubt him. Like I said I was ignorant. But it is what it is, and I got an unhealthy puppy. But with much love and many vet visits later I have the most beautiful boy ever.With the most amazing personality. Thats what really makes this whole thing even worse. I truly believe Lance from Thunderstorm Dobermans is using good breeding stock. Its obvious with the temperment of my boy...but the way they are ignoring their(puppies) his care is disgusting!! I just wanted to warn people not to trust them like I did. Yeah call me red neck, whatever,Im not...I just love my boy and he will have a wonderful life with me and my kids.

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Old 04-11-2010, 07:16 PM   #15
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Thanks for coming back and letting us know about your puppy. Thanks to you he has a better life. We are all sorry you and the puppy had to go through all this, sincerely.

I wasn't putting you down, but when we pay people for a dog, we help them continue breeding. That is all I meant and if I received a puppy in that condition, I'd be more than red-neck. Just sometimes you have to be careful because you don't know and not everyone has the puppies best interest at heart.

If this is typical of his practices, that is sad. I don't know the people and just know that your puppy went through a lot. I hate shipping puppies but it is done everyday. I would worried too much and it just isn't worth it to me in most situations. I understand your situation may have been different.... So Sad. Thank you for coming back and letting us know he has a happy life now. I hope his tail healed and you are now enjoying him. Thanks to you he has a good life.

Yes, I have heard that his Euro dogs come from a well known kennel. I am not fond of the Euro dogs in general but all dobermans are beautiful little gifts, regardless of where they came from. Best Wishes to you.

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Old 04-11-2010, 07:45 PM   #16
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I will contribute this on shipping as I have shipped puppies from the beginning. If the puppy has a stable temperament, has been properly socialized it is a GREAT experience for them and they sail through it. I have never had a problem with it and neither have my families. Yes i have had some puppies arrive late but again stable temperament and proper socialization are the key, otherwise there is a problem bigger than shipping brewing.

As a new person you had no way of knowing and as I said when you do business of any kind anywhere there is always an implied trust. Even if you go meet someone there, they are on their best behavior and you can make just as big a mistake. So going there is not as big a deal as we might believe. An honest person is honest and trustworthy regardless. Just like all businesses there are good and there are bad apples. The bad apples get all the headlines.
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:33 PM   #17
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As soon as I have 15 posts and can post pics I will. Sparticus is a very LOYAL and protective boy. He is great with my 4 kids and my 3 other dogs. It is sad that thunderstorm dobermans does business like that, and unfortunately if I could I would put them out of business. But we all know just me alone cant do that. Thats why I do post about my personal experiences and I have the photographic proof to back it up. Its not just heresay. I will keep posting and sharing my experiences just so if anyone does do research on forums like this or googles "Thunderstorm Dobermans" this will pop up in the search. It may not help a whole lot, but it is helping a little cause I have already had numerous people contact me who were almost going to get a puppy from Lance at Thunderstorm dobermans, but they saw my posts, and I sent them the pics and now they decided to look else where. Im happy with that. Yeah he is still breeding, but maybe if he doesnt sell his pups as fast, he will slow down and have less. I dunno...just a thought???
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:08 PM   #18
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Good for you and glad you are here. We want to see pictures. He does come from some good Euro bloodlines - not his fault - That is how quickly poor breeders can run down a good bloodline. I have seen it with several "breeders" not just TS. What makes me sick it it just amazes me with all the good breeders out there how so many people get pulled into their web site. Why ? Why are they so easy to find and everyone else so hard??? do they just advertise everywhere so that is how you find them???

Anyway Hope Sparticus is on the mend and back to normal soon. Post pictures when you can
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Old 04-12-2010, 02:15 AM   #19
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I informed Lance Landes of these postings and, am posting his reply as I feel it is the fair thing to do. Once again, I leave it to the reader to draw his/her own conclusions. I have omitted the last name and phone number of the vet he refers to:

Subject: RE: Planned --Update
Date: 10 April 2010 5:19:05 PM

well I am glad that you are choosing not to verbal assassinate ME or my wife for any issues regarding this matter . I Honestly wish instead of thinking that we are trying to make up excuses , for the issue with the tail , and contact our vet and simply ask so that you might in fact ACTUALLY have " the facts " . About this tail issue .
I can only imagine what you must truly believe since my explanation wasn't accepted .
I can however tell you what is fact , and you can in turn , verify the facts by a simple phone call to our vet .
Your puppy , was examined by our vet , and was issued a health certificate , by a licensed and well respected vet , He was wormed every week while he was here and since he was 5 weeks of age .
His tail was docked when he was 2 days of age , and his tail was repaired by our vet , at the time of his ear cropping .
I am sorry that you might think that this is not the case . And I do truly understand that this tail issue has certainly been a huge ordeal . This is unfortunate , but it was done with only the best intentions for a nice finished tail .
I hope that you would understand that , and that I myself had nothing to gain by ANY of this . Our intentions were in the right place . We have had several of our OWN dobermans here in our program with their tails repaired also . Brahm bones for an example had his tail repaired at 8 weeks , However we did not have much of any trouble and his tail healed up fine .
My wife and I have nothing to gain by causing ANYONE or any of our dobermans or dobermans produced in program any harm . We have worked far to hard to achieve the things that we have in the years we have invested on a daily basis with our dobermans , and our program to jeopardize all that for any reason would be senseless .

We have now issued new protocol , and in the future , when we have to have puppies tails repaired , we will not allow ANY puppies to go to their new homes until their ears and tail are 110 % healed . Also we will send 2 doses of worming for their new owner to administer them to the puppy themselves , so that they might know without a shadow of a doubt that their puppy has been given wormer , because the new owners will be able to administer the pups wormer themselves also .
These above mentioned things will in my opinion alleviate any of the issues that you have experienced , for others in the future .
Worming meds only cost $5 , per puppy , per week from 5 weeks of age on . I know you may not accept this either , but for $15 - $25 per puppy , ( depending upon how long they stay here ) , I have VERY little to gain by not supplying them with wormer . In fact I have everything to LOOSE . So I would at least wish you to consider that aspect of things .
I have been the owner of a successful tattoo studio for the last 10 years . I have 7 artists that work for me , and one of southern indiana's busiest studios . I did not get this way by cutting corners , and producing bad products , or cheap methods .
And I am the exact same with our dobermans . We traveled the world to find and import what we feel to be exceptional quality dobermans . And I would not exhort so much of my time , money , and efforts to intend to produce and put out poor quality or unhealthy dobermans either . That is simply not the case . I don't think you would have come to be interested in purchasing a doberman from us if you didn't like what you saw on our website , and believed what was written there .
Like anything else I do in life , I stand behind what I do . And I would like to help reimburse you for any vet bills that you might have had , do to this tail situation .
I would however , appreciate as a return courtesy , if you would take the time to speak with my vet about the situation with your pups tail . That way you would at least hear from my vet that she performed this procedure , and that it is a common practice . Rather than thinking I don't even know what .
If you would contact Sue H at 812-xxx-xxxx , or I can have her contact you if you would rather .
I appreciate the manner in which you contacted me , and I want you to be certain that I will reimburse you for any costs you might have incurred with the tail . we stand behind what we do and produce , and I will be happy to reimburse you .
I would also be happy to speak with you about all this on the phone as well . If you would like to call me anytime at 812-xxx-xxxx.

Thanks , LANCE LANDES
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:15 AM   #20
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Thats funny that Lance offered to reimburse you for your vet cost cause he didnt offer me. He told me to send the dog back to him at my exspense and he would give me a full refund. I didnt want to send the dog back, especially after I saw the condition of him. And worming once a week for 6 months is extreme...Obviously whatever wormer they used wasnt killing the TYPE of worms our puppies had. I had to pay $20 for 1 pill from my vet. So $5 for the wormer is alot cheaper than what I paid. And it wasnt working, obviously. My pup was soooooooooooooooo infested it looked like he was pooping spaghetti noodles, all over my yard. It was disgusting. Sorry to be so graphic, but it wasnt just a mild case of him having worms. It was really really bad. His tail didnt just come with a stitch popped.It was severely infected. The vet had to remove and additional 1/2 inch just so he could stitch it back up.It was swollen like a golf ball on the end. Then me and my husband had to poke the end of it with a needle to drain all the infection out of it. We nursed the poor little guy for the first month we had him. We have had him 2 months and he's gained over 30 lbs. To me thats alot of weight for a puppy to gain. I wasnt as nice to him as you are being, I sent him before and after photos and told him I was reporting his vet, and also that I wanted a refund for the vet. Or $$$ back, because I no longer had a show quality dog,but a pet quality . I had already had a handler for Sparticus that was going to put him in puppy matches to start him out, once she saw how short his ears and tail were, she said he no longer could be shown. I dont show nor do I know anything about it.But thats why I wanted to get a dog from Lance. He sold Sparticus with full registration, most breeders dont. So basically I pissed Lance off by telling him that, so he told me if I email him again, he will delete them on sight. Either way, I am blessed to have my baby boy. Hopefully Lance will put as much effort into his "breeding program" as he does his tattoo shop. I do think he breeds amazing dogs. Everything that was wrong with our puppies are from negligance on his part, and a really crappy vet. Im glad to hear he wont be shipping the pups out with stitched tails anymore. Thats great.
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